Arsenal FC a very promising story

[david3103]

Can I just clarify the situation then now I've read the last few pages.

Fans should shut up because they have no relevance to the successful business model of the clubs and basically they aren't even required these days. That'll be those same fans who pay for Sky Sports who inturn pay the huge tv deals which are the biggest factor to these said businesses.

Obv I'm clearly missing something vital here since tikay is the main drumbeater of this idea and has more knowledge of the Sky tv side than I do, so what relevant bit am I missing please ?

The epl could financially operate fine without the sky money and any domestic ticket sales etc given the sheer scale of foreign TV deals for the epl.  To the business men they like it like this because they know now they don't have to bow to 'the English fans' who come out with this bullshit that the epl wouldn't exist without them when even season ticket holders nowadays contribute tiny % of revenue collectively compared to the good old days.  It's a global export product now

Lolapool could probably sell out to foreign fans alone some games.

How long do you think it would all last if stadia were filled with solely foreign fans every week?
Stadia which would have less atmosphere than the moon.

[tikay]

Can I just clarify the situation then now I've read the last few pages.

Fans should shut up because they have no relevance to the successful business model of the clubs and basically they aren't even required these days. That'll be those same fans who pay for Sky Sports who inturn pay the huge tv deals which are the biggest factor to these said businesses.

Obv I'm clearly missing something vital here since tikay is the main drumbeater of this idea and has more knowledge of the Sky tv side than I do, so what relevant bit am I missing please ?

I'm not saying it's a good thing Ray, but, honestly, I think that's how it is. It does not really matter what Mr Average Fan (in 99% of the cases, that's Mr Armchair Fan) thinks.

If you or me owned a Football Club, & we were the only ones privy to our financial situation, & it was our own money, would we really listen to a bunch of amateur blokes chuntering on a football forum telling us how to spend our own money? Of course we would not.

As to, say, the Cech situation, & whether Mr W was OBLIGED to tell us why, I'm afraid I may be a bit contrarian on this, but I think it's one of those "entitlement" things, & I don't believe we have any entitlement to know some of these private ins & outs. In theory, there could be any number of reasons why it needs to be, & is better, kept private. The Clubs are not obliged to tell us everything.

The weird thing about all this is that Cech's absence is masking the real truth - Arsenal were a mess on Tuesday evening, & we can't blame all that on Cech's absence.   

[Archer]

Can I just clarify the situation then now I've read the last few pages.

Fans should shut up because they have no relevance to the successful business model of the clubs and basically they aren't even required these days. That'll be those same fans who pay for Sky Sports who inturn pay the huge tv deals which are the biggest factor to these said businesses.

Obv I'm clearly missing something vital here since tikay is the main drumbeater of this idea and has more knowledge of the Sky tv side than I do, so what relevant bit am I missing please ?

The epl could financially operate fine without the sky money and any domestic ticket sales etc given the sheer scale of foreign TV deals for the epl.  To the business men they like it like this because they know now they don't have to bow to 'the English fans' who come out with this bullshit that the epl wouldn't exist without them when even season ticket holders nowadays contribute tiny % of revenue collectively compared to the good old days.  It's a global export product now

Lolapool could probably sell out to foreign fans alone some games.

That's hilarious! You post some brilliant stuff but that is an absolute fail.

Matchday revenue as a % of turnover  in 2014 accounts:

Arsenal 33%
United 25%
Chelsea 22%
Spurs 24%
Liverpool 20%
Newcastle 20%
City 13%

These per centages are before the wave of increasing capacity - City have just added an extenstion with more to follow, Liverpool are in the process of extending, Chelsea are moving stadium and Spurs are moving. That would suggest to me they are interested in the supporter's ££.

TV revenues have obviously grown massively and represent a far higher percentage of turnover than previously - particularly for the lower clubs.  The improtant thing is the domestic TV deal is higher than all combined overseas TV rights. The new domestic TV deal which  kicks in from 2016 is worth 5.1 billion and that is up by 71%. The overseas TV deals are currently worth £2.2billion and they are being re-negotiated at the moment. Yes, they will increase (possibly to c £4billion) and are obviously very important but NOT in isolation the the extent you suggest.

[mondatoo]

Can I just clarify the situation then now I've read the last few pages.

Fans should shut up because they have no relevance to the successful business model of the clubs and basically they aren't even required these days. That'll be those same fans who pay for Sky Sports who inturn pay the huge tv deals which are the biggest factor to these said businesses.

Obv I'm clearly missing something vital here since tikay is the main drumbeater of this idea and has more knowledge of the Sky tv side than I do, so what relevant bit am I missing please ?

I'm not saying it's a good thing Ray, but, honestly, I think that's how it is. It does not really matter what Mr Average Fan (in 99% of the cases, that's Mr Armchair Fan) thinks.

If you or me owned a Football Club, & we were the only ones privy to our financial situation, & it was our own money, would we really listen to a bunch of amateur blokes chuntering on a football forum telling us how to spend our own money? Of course we would not.

As to, say, the Cech situation, & whether Mr W was OBLIGED to tell us why, I'm afraid I may be a bit contrarian on this, but I think it's one of those "entitlement" things, & I don't believe we have any entitlement to know some of these private ins & outs. In theory, there could be any number of reasons why it needs to be, & is better, kept private. The Clubs are not obliged to tell us everything.

The weird thing about all this is that Cech's absence is masking the real truth - Arsenal were a mess on Tuesday evening, & we can't blame all that on Cech's absence.  

That wasn't my point though. I'm not talking about the board paying attention to fans opinions on how the club should be run. I'm saying hypothetically every single fan of football suddenly goes enough is enough, there are now 0 fans anywhere having any involvement with football; no paying to go to games, no paying for Sky tv etc etc, this is no problem to these business' no ?

[tikay]

Can I just clarify the situation then now I've read the last few pages.

Fans should shut up because they have no relevance to the successful business model of the clubs and basically they aren't even required these days. That'll be those same fans who pay for Sky Sports who inturn pay the huge tv deals which are the biggest factor to these said businesses.

Obv I'm clearly missing something vital here since tikay is the main drumbeater of this idea and has more knowledge of the Sky tv side than I do, so what relevant bit am I missing please ?

I'm not saying it's a good thing Ray, but, honestly, I think that's how it is. It does not really matter what Mr Average Fan (in 99% of the cases, that's Mr Armchair Fan) thinks.

If you or me owned a Football Club, & we were the only ones privy to our financial situation, & it was our own money, would we really listen to a bunch of amateur blokes chuntering on a football forum telling us how to spend our own money? Of course we would not.

As to, say, the Cech situation, & whether Mr W was OBLIGED to tell us why, I'm afraid I may be a bit contrarian on this, but I think it's one of those "entitlement" things, & I don't believe we have any entitlement to know some of these private ins & outs. In theory, there could be any number of reasons why it needs to be, & is better, kept private. The Clubs are not obliged to tell us everything.

The weird thing about all this is that Cech's absence is masking the real truth - Arsenal were a mess on Tuesday evening, & we can't blame all that on Cech's absence.  

That wasn't my point though. I'm not talking about the board paying attention to fans opinions on how the club should be run. I'm saying hypothetically every single fan of football suddenly goes enough is enough, there are now 0 fans anywhere having any involvement with football; no paying to go to games, no paying for Sky tv etc etc, this is no problem to these business' no ?

Ahh, sorry Ray, missed that.

It's never going to happen though, is it? The fans will still turn up.

Things have not gone well of late at Newcastle, to put it mildly, & the fans have never stopped moaning for the last 18 (?) months, & there had been all that "Pardew Out" & "Ashley Out" stuff.

Home attendances this season? (Capacity 52,000)

49,000 (v Southampton)

50,000 (v Arsenal)

48,000 (v Watford)

49,000 (v Chelsea)

There can't be many clubs where the fans have moaned at lack of progress than Newcastle, but those attendances don't reflect disquiet, do they? They even got 27,000 v Northampton in the League Cup.

So no, I don't think moaning fans makes a dot of difference - the figures seem to back that up.

[mondatoo]

Pretty confused why you keep referring to moaning fans when I haven't said one word about that, but anyho, you still didn't answer my hypothetical question ?

[tikay]

Pretty confused why you keep referring to moaning fans when I haven't said one word about that, but anyho, you still didn't answer my hypothetical question ?

Sorry, I confused "moaning" with "fans opinions", though that line is blurry, as fans generally only voice opinions loudly when they disagree with what the Club does.

I did answer the hypo question though. They won't stop attending games (I gave an example), or watching on TV. They won't.

I think the hypo question should be addressed to Argue, not me - it was he who alluded to the affect on revenues if no fans attended, not me. My point was that they won't stop attending or watching on TV.  

[mondatoo]

Pretty confused why you keep referring to moaning fans when I haven't said one word about that, but anyho, you still didn't answer my hypothetical question ?

Sorry, I confused "moaning" with "fans opinions", though that line is blurry, as fans generally only voice opinions loudly when they disagree with what the Club does.

I did answer the hypo question though. They won't stop attending games (I gave an example), or watching on TV. They won't.

I think the hypo question should be addressed to Argue, not me - it was he who alluded to the affect on revenues if no fans attended, not me. My point was that they won't stop attending or watching on TV.  

Well you didn't because I've neither mentioned moaning or opinions.

I think it should be addressed to you mostly as you seem to have the strongest opinion regards the value of fans. Clearly you haven't answered the question you've just said it can't happen, but that's not really how hypotheticals work is it ? So I'll ask you again as someone who knows a lot about business and a lot about Sky could you answer my hypothetical question please ?

[tikay]

Pretty confused why you keep referring to moaning fans when I haven't said one word about that, but anyho, you still didn't answer my hypothetical question ?

Sorry, I confused "moaning" with "fans opinions", though that line is blurry, as fans generally only voice opinions loudly when they disagree with what the Club does.

I did answer the hypo question though. They won't stop attending games (I gave an example), or watching on TV. They won't.

I think the hypo question should be addressed to Argue, not me - it was he who alluded to the affect on revenues if no fans attended, not me. My point was that they won't stop attending or watching on TV.  

Well you didn't because I've neither mentioned moaning or opinions.

I think it should be addressed to you mostly as you seem to have the strongest opinion regards the value of fans. Clearly you haven't answered the question you've just said it can't happen, but that's not really how hypotheticals work is it ? So I'll ask you again as someone who knows a lot about business and a lot about Sky could you answer my hypothetical question please ?

They are just my opinions, Ray, I'n not claiming any special knowledge of the subject and I'm not trying to be awkward. Just my opinions.

In your hypo example, if every fan, globally, stopped going to games, or watching on tv, football would die. We both know that.

[arbboy]

Can I just clarify the situation then now I've read the last few pages.

Fans should shut up because they have no relevance to the successful business model of the clubs and basically they aren't even required these days. That'll be those same fans who pay for Sky Sports who inturn pay the huge tv deals which are the biggest factor to these said businesses.

Obv I'm clearly missing something vital here since tikay is the main drumbeater of this idea and has more knowledge of the Sky tv side than I do, so what relevant bit am I missing please ?

The epl could financially operate fine without the sky money and any domestic ticket sales etc given the sheer scale of foreign TV deals for the epl.  To the business men they like it like this because they know now they don't have to bow to 'the English fans' who come out with this bullshit that the epl wouldn't exist without them when even season ticket holders nowadays contribute tiny % of revenue collectively compared to the good old days.  It's a global export product now

Lolapool could probably sell out to foreign fans alone some games.

That's hilarious! You post some brilliant stuff but that is an absolute fail.

Matchday revenue as a % of turnover  in 2014 accounts:

Arsenal 33%
United 25%
Chelsea 22%
Spurs 24%
Liverpool 20%
Newcastle 20%
City 13%

These per centages are before the wave of increasing capacity - City have just added an extenstion with more to follow, Liverpool are in the process of extending, Chelsea are moving stadium and Spurs are moving. That would suggest to me they are interested in the supporter's ££.

TV revenues have obviously grown massively and represent a far higher percentage of turnover than previously - particularly for the lower clubs.  The improtant thing is the domestic TV deal is higher than all combined overseas TV rights. The new domestic TV deal which  kicks in from 2016 is worth 5.1 billion and that is up by 71%. The overseas TV deals are currently worth £2.2billion and they are being re-negotiated at the moment. Yes, they will increase (possibly to c £4billion) and are obviously very important but NOT in isolation the the extent you suggest.

It is a fail in the sense that players wouldn't be the top earners in the world on average in the epl.  But the epl would still survive totally without sky money and gate receipt money. The players would just be on 30k a week(still above most major leagues in the world) than 60k.

[arbboy]

The other factor which hasn't been mentioned at all is advertising/sponsorship revenue which is growing massively. Manure get £5trillion a year now for Being their training kit sponsor.  Virtually all of the major clubs sponsorships now have nothing to do with UK based fans and are targeted massively at the global brand this epl is now targeted at.  There are numerous sponsorships now where the average UK fan wouldn't have a clue who the brand are and/or what they sell.

So this stream would continue to grow and grow even if the grounds were empty and no one in the UK paid for sky sports.

[Archer]

Arbboy, your starting premise in an earlier post was : The epl could financially operate fine without the sky money and any domestic ticket sales etc given the sheer scale of foreign TV deals for the epl.  

Do you know what the "sheer scale of foreign TV deals" is?

This is the Arsenal thread so lets look at the figures from their 2015 accounts:

£100.4 million - Matchday income  (ticket sales and food/drink etc)
£124.8 million - Broadcasting
£103.3 million - Commercial all sources
£329.3 million - Total Turnover when including small £0.80million from player loans)

So how much of that was from foreign TV deals?  Well, in 2014/2015 Arsenal received just £27.75 million in respect of their share of the sale of international broadcasting rights which is included in the total £124.8 million broadcasting figure above.

[77dave]

Are Arsenal fans hoping Spurs win tonight and go far in the Europa League this season. European coefficient points will be huge for holding on to that 4th Champions League spot for the season after next.

[Graham C]

Are Arsenal fans hoping Spurs win tonight

lol nope

[Karabiner]

Are Arsenal fans hoping Spurs win tonight and go far in the Europa League this season. European coefficient points will be huge for holding on to that 4th Champions League spot for the season after next.

Appreciate the concern but it's unlikely to be bothering your lot on current form..