Arsenal FC a very promising story

[celtic]

If Arsenal were able to sign Lewandowski in January do you think they would win the league and would the fans would be happy with Wenger?

they'd be 25-30 goals a season less giroud's goals closer

(then add a commanding centre back, a world class defensive midfielder)

i think a lot of fans would be happier with Wenger if the cash mountain was £50m not £200m and he wasn't so flipping stubborn

that may or may not be logical but many fans don't want to be stuck in 4th-5th, last 16 CL and with a glass ceiling on progress yet with £200m in the bank!

Do you really think armchair football fans, armed with their vast knowledge of managing football clubs, & equipped with a monster-sized rear view mirror, would EVER be happy with team selection, transfer policy & hows yer father of the team they support?

You can't run (successful) football clubs via a Fans Committee.

60000 fans last at least deserve some sort of explanation.

Armchair fans can gtf

For their £100 or whatever, they get to see a 90 minute football match, not the keys to the Personnel Department.

not just one game tho is it? It's been going on for years, and will have a knock on effect for the coming years.

If England lose their 4th champions league place do you think arsenal fans will be happy qualifying for the Europa league every year?

Arsenal fans won't be happy unless Arsenal with the EPL & CL. Every year. It's the nature of fans, is it not? Just because they don't do either, does not make the Club or the Manager a failure.

I don't think the average arsenal expects to win both. One was be nice, challenging for both would be nicer.

They do "challenge" for both, don't they? How many consecutive years have they been in the CL - 15 is it? And to be in the CL you need to be top 4 in the EPL.

That's relative, of course, but compared to around 14 of the EPL teams, only a handful challenge for either. And that includes Arsenal.

Guess there will never be a meeting of minds here. Interesting debate, all the same.

I wouldn't say they have challenged for the league. I can't remember too many times where they have been in contention. Can remember a few times when they have just scraped 4th place tho. Ask tal, he will remember one in particular

[TightEnd]

Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter what fans think.

Prices are as elastic as you like, demand outstrips supply, TV deals go huger and huger - it really makes no difference to the owners if Arse finish 1st or 4th or if they progress in the champs league or not (well a slight cash difference there) but their investment is doing pretty well anyway.

This of course is why top level football is shite these days and I wish I'd been raised to be a QPR fan or summat

correct

£1035 and £2039 is the top and bottom end of arsenal season ticket prices this year..around 2x the league average....

corporate demand is high, especially midweek (just look at the emirates ten minutes into the second half last night, half empty until everyon e had had their half time vol au vents in corporate)

fans love for the club, whether happy or unhappy, means they will keep going and keep paying

[tikay]

If Arsenal were able to sign Lewandowski in January do you think they would win the league and would the fans would be happy with Wenger?

they'd be 25-30 goals a season less giroud's goals closer

(then add a commanding centre back, a world class defensive midfielder)

i think a lot of fans would be happier with Wenger if the cash mountain was £50m not £200m and he wasn't so flipping stubborn

that may or may not be logical but many fans don't want to be stuck in 4th-5th, last 16 CL and with a glass ceiling on progress yet with £200m in the bank!

Do you really think armchair football fans, armed with their vast knowledge of managing football clubs, & equipped with a monster-sized rear view mirror, would EVER be happy with team selection, transfer policy & hows yer father of the team they support?

You can't run (successful) football clubs via a Fans Committee.

60000 fans last at least deserve some sort of explanation.

Armchair fans can gtf

For their £100 or whatever, they get to see a 90 minute football match, not the keys to the Personnel Department.

not just one game tho is it? It's been going on for years, and will have a knock on effect for the coming years.

If England lose their 4th champions league place do you think arsenal fans will be happy qualifying for the Europa league every year?

Arsenal fans won't be happy unless Arsenal with the EPL & CL. Every year. It's the nature of fans, is it not? Just because they don't do either, does not make the Club or the Manager a failure.

I don't think the average arsenal expects to win both. One was be nice, challenging for both would be nicer.

They do "challenge" for both, don't they? How many consecutive years have they been in the CL - 15 is it? And to be in the CL you need to be top 4 in the EPL.

That's relative, of course, but compared to around 14 of the EPL teams, only a handful challenge for either. And that includes Arsenal.

Guess there will never be a meeting of minds here. Interesting debate, all the same.

I wouldn't say they have challenged for the league. I can't remember too many times where they have been in contention. Can remember a few times when they have just scraped 4th place tho. Ask tal, he will remember one in particular

Who is Tal? Does he support a team that is regularly in contention for the EPL or CL?

[celtic]

Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter what fans think.

Prices are as elastic as you like, demand outstrips supply, TV deals go huger and huger - it really makes no difference to the owners if Arse finish 1st or 4th or if they progress in the champs league or not (well a slight cash difference there) but their investment is doing pretty well anyway.

This of course is why top level football is shite these days and I wish I'd been raised to be a QPR fan or summat

correct

£1035 and £2039 is the top and bottom end of arsenal season ticket prices this year..around 2x the league average....

corporate demand is high, especially midweek (just look at the emirates ten minutes into the second half last night, half empty until everyon e had had their half time vol au vents in corporate)

fans love for the club, whether happy or unhappy, means they will keep going and keep paying

It has had the opposite effect at Celtic.

[The Camel]

I think Arsene is a victim of his own loyalty sometimes.

Ospina did a really good job for us last season after claiming the #1 spot from Szczesny and his stats. were among the best in the league, consequently I think AW would have felt it unfair to only play him in the Carling Cup as a reward for his good service over the last year.

Ospina's howler aside conceding three goals at home to Olympiakos is ridiculous.

I heard Wenger being quizzed about this, he seemed to hint he had a good reason to do it. And he must have, he's not a fool, he's the 2nd most successful Manager in EPL history, behind only SAF.

Do you think he would have been better actually explaining it rather than hinting? Maybe the fans deserve an explanation?

Nope. It may have been something he (or Cech) wished to keep private. Discretion & all that.

The fans don't have a right to know what is going on at their club? Why the manager is picking a second rate (compared to cech) goalkeeper?

Someone said many years ago, football with the fans is nothing. He wasn't wrong.

Nope. The customer at Tesco has no right to know why the Manager of Fruit & Veg is not in today, it's none of their business.

The Managers of EPL teams are obliged to give Media Interviews pre & post game in return for wheelbarrows full of money from the EPL & CL, but let's not kid ourselves, they only pay lip service.

Jesus, Tikay. I don't think you've ever said something I disagree with more than that.

The fans are the club.

[nirvana]

Fans being the club might be true outside the top of the premier league - they are very far from that for the top sides - almost, but not quite, an irrelevance.

Plus, all fans know that one day Wenger will go, and 99.9999% of the unhappy will wait that out. He knows that too so it's not too hard to speak in riddles rather than speak frankly and get away with it.

Personally I'm happy with Wenger and like the fact we win some / lose some

[tikay]

I think Arsene is a victim of his own loyalty sometimes.

Ospina did a really good job for us last season after claiming the #1 spot from Szczesny and his stats. were among the best in the league, consequently I think AW would have felt it unfair to only play him in the Carling Cup as a reward for his good service over the last year.

Ospina's howler aside conceding three goals at home to Olympiakos is ridiculous.

I heard Wenger being quizzed about this, he seemed to hint he had a good reason to do it. And he must have, he's not a fool, he's the 2nd most successful Manager in EPL history, behind only SAF.

Do you think he would have been better actually explaining it rather than hinting? Maybe the fans deserve an explanation?

Nope. It may have been something he (or Cech) wished to keep private. Discretion & all that.

The fans don't have a right to know what is going on at their club? Why the manager is picking a second rate (compared to cech) goalkeeper?

Someone said many years ago, football with the fans is nothing. He wasn't wrong.

Nope. The customer at Tesco has no right to know why the Manager of Fruit & Veg is not in today, it's none of their business.

The Managers of EPL teams are obliged to give Media Interviews pre & post game in return for wheelbarrows full of money from the EPL & CL, but let's not kid ourselves, they only pay lip service.

Jesus, Tikay. I don't think you've ever said something I disagree with more than that.

The fans are the club.

Might have been the case back in the day, but I don't think it's true now.

Do we think Abramovich at Chelsea or Sheikh Whatsit at Man City really care what the fans think? They own Clubs for different reasons these days.

In the lower Leagues, yes, for the Elite Clubs, no.

[celtic]

Do you think the sponsors and owners would still plough the money in if the games were being played in half empty stadiums?

[horseplayer]

Opsina mistake happens

Personally I would be more worried barely created a thing when  3/2 down

[TightEnd]

Do you think the sponsors and owners would still plough the money in if the games were being played in half empty stadiums?

Yes, for as long as TV contracts deliver higher and high returns

that is the key, then corporate, then fans

for the top teams only

this breaks down in the bottom half of the premier league and below imo

[Ledders]

Whilst Wenger was a pioneer of ideas he hasn't adapted anywhere near enough in the last 10 years.

The attitude to injuries and player recovery seems archaic. You hear him go on about the "red zone" but he repeatedly runs players into the ground, rushes them back, and then blames luck for injuries.

Regarding Cech, if he's not fit enough to start then he absolutely should not be on the bench. If he's carrying a light muscle injury, surely full rest is the solution. Not going through full training and a warmup instead of sitting at home all evening.

If it's a tactical choice, then simply LOL. Finally spend your money on an experienced top class goalie, and don't play him in your most important games.

[TightEnd]

Intreresting background from Cross, an Arsenal fan and well connected, into Ospina/Cech...going back to what wenger promised ospina in the summer..ref the loyalty point made by ralph this morning

"Cech WAS fit to play and the whole AFC squad were shocked that he didn't"

http://mirr.im/1OGsmdr   

[George2Loose]

Fergie had the most money, then Chelsea had the most money, then City had the most money. Wenger never did have the most money and still made Arsenal title winners, cup winners Champs league finalists  etc

Don't know where I'd rank him as a manager versus others but I don't think hes underachieved

Implying success is simply down to money is pretty insulting those managers. Why even have managers if whoever chucks the most money at it wins?

[George2Loose]

And to describe Arsenal as challenging for CL or EPL in the last few years is fantasy.

[nirvana]

Fergie had the most money, then Chelsea had the most money, then City had the most money. Wenger never did have the most money and still made Arsenal title winners, cup winners Champs league finalists  etc

Don't know where I'd rank him as a manager versus others but I don't think hes underachieved

Implying success is simply down to money is pretty insulting those managers. Why even have managers if whoever chucks the most money at it wins?

It's not an implication, it's a fact that money is the biggest factor, if I've casually insulted mourinho and ferguson along the way , all the better. I like pellegrini though, nice hair