Arsenal FC a very promising story

[Cf]

A lot of what you say there is true Tikay.

I think the disappointment comes from the fact that Arsenal have always been one of the best rather than THE best. And the club seem to be happy with this and don't want to push on. Would a few extra signings over the years have achieved this? Who knows. But it would at least send out a statement of intent rather than "we're happy with top 4 not bothered about winning the thing".

It's a bit like when a club says their aim is to not get relegated. Obviously that's important for the money. But as a sporting achievement it's hardly inspiring stuff.

[tikay]

Less of the lolzzzzzzstoke on this thread.  If one thread understands how good Stoke are its AW!!  Swing low.............  His most dreaded game of the season away at Stoke every season. 

Glad it was not wasted.

I stuck a jibe in Tal Bloke's eye, too.

Love it.

[tikay]

A lot of what you say there is true Tikay.

I think the disappointment comes from the fact that Arsenal have always been one of the best rather than THE best. And the club seem to be happy with this and don't want to push on. Would a few extra signings over the years have achieved this? Who knows. But it would at least send out a statement of intent rather than "we're happy with top 4 not bothered about winning the thing".

It's a bit like when a club says their aim is to not get relegated. Obviously that's important for the money. But as a sporting achievement it's hardly inspiring stuff.

We will never know, will we?

And I'm not really sure what statement it sends out. "We spend money" means nothing to me.

Newcastle (& many others) spent a lump of money, but it achieved nothing. 

I just don't buy into all this "Arsenal are a failure", (you'd struggle to name many more successful Teams long & short term), or the lazy old argument that Arsenal are wrong to be prudent with money.

If you had, say, £50 million to invest in a football club, what Club (& Management) would you want to invest it in? Can't be many better or more sound investments than Arsenal.  And let us never forget - the Directors & Shareholders own the Clubs, not the fans.

[Cf]

Newcastle only really spend money when they've nearly been relegated or are looking like they are going to be relegated. Hopefully with Rafa in control that's now a thing of the past but that's another thread...

I don't think Arsenal are a failure. But I think it's fair to say they've perhaps not been as successful as they could of been and I can understand their fans getting frustrated when they perceive the club to be happy where they are whilst others strive to improve. Arsenal have had key weaknesses in their squad over the years and have often not addressed them.

[pleno1]

Sign Mahrez and you will win the league imo

[BigAdz]

A lot of what you say there is true Tikay.

I think the disappointment comes from the fact that Arsenal have always been one of the best rather than THE best. And the club seem to be happy with this and don't want to push on. Would a few extra signings over the years have achieved this? Who knows. But it would at least send out a statement of intent rather than "we're happy with top 4 not bothered about winning the thing".

It's a bit like when a club says their aim is to not get relegated. Obviously that's important for the money. But as a sporting achievement it's hardly inspiring stuff.

We will never know, will we?

And I'm not really sure what statement it sends out. "We spend money" means nothing to me.

Newcastle (& many others) spent a lump of money, but it achieved nothing. 

I just don't buy into all this "Arsenal are a failure", (you'd struggle to name many more successful Teams long & short term), or the lazy old argument that Arsenal are wrong to be prudent with money.

If you had, say, £50 million to invest in a football club, what Club (& Management) would you want to invest it in? Can't be many better or more sound investments than Arsenal.  And let us never forget - the Directors & Shareholders own the Clubs, not the fans.

This is where some of the older fans get it so wrong.

I have never ever said Arsenal are a failure.

I have constantly said we don't achieve what we could.

Big difference Boss.

I like CFs statement, that it's the intent that lacking. That's what really grates.

[hhyftrftdr]

Newcastle only really spend money when they've nearly been relegated or are looking like they are going to be relegated. Hopefully with Rafa in control that's now a thing of the past but that's another thread...

I don't think Arsenal are a failure. But I think it's fair to say they've perhaps not been as successful as they could of been and I can understand their fans getting frustrated when they perceive the club to be happy where they are whilst others strive to improve. Arsenal have had key weaknesses in their squad over the years and have often not addressed them.

Basically this.

As an outsider looking in, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to know you are just a couple of great signings away from possibly winning the league, and this has been the case for a number of years now. Even more frustrating knowing the money is there....

I don't think Arsenal have failed but equally they could have achieved so much more in the last decade. You don't see many open top bus parades for balance sheets every May.

[mondatoo]

Interesting tikay that you keep regigurtaitng the same arguement over and over in each football thread with what has to be described as borderline contempt for "the fans" yet the recent Deloitte financial findings in January 2016 have the two most successful clubs being Real Madrid and Barcelona, despite the huge amount of money in the Permier League. If I'm not mistaken they are both owned by "the fans" ?

I can't remember ever seeing one post you've made in any football thread regards to culpability for some of these genius businessmen and women who run and own these clubs yet there's been countless times were you state they must be right and the fans must be wrong, do you think these people are all immune to mistakes or you just never get round to posting when that happens ?

[tikay]

Interesting tikay that you keep regigurtaitng the same arguement over and over in each football thread with what has to be described as borderline contempt for "the fans" yet the recent Deloitte financial findings in January 2016 have the two most successful clubs being Real Madrid and Barcelona, despite the huge amount of money in the Permier League. If I'm not mistaken they are both owned by "the fans" ?

I can't remember ever seeing one post you've made in any football thread regards to culpability for some of these genius businessmen and women who run and own these clubs yet there's been countless times were you state they must be right and the fans must be wrong, do you think these people are all immune to mistakes or you just never get round to posting when that happens ?

"contempt for fans"?  That's a bit harsh, Ray. Not sure I generally do contempt for others, especially my friends here.

We could equally debate "contempt for the owners".

Turn it on its head. If you were to invest the bulk ( or a significant proportion) of your net worth into something you cared a great deal about, would you really allow others to tell you how you should look after it? I know that if someone tells how I should or should not spend my own money what my reaction would be - GTFO. Pretty sure you'd think the same, too. The Directors and shareholders of Arsenal have employed AW for 20 years, so it seems to me they are extremely pleased with what he has achieved during his lengthy tenure. And they pay his wages. Any suggestion that fans pay the wages is wrong. When we buy a dozen eggs from Tesco, it does not pay anyone's wages, it just gets us a pack of eggs. How Tesco spend that income is nothing to do with us.

The comparison with Spanish football is invalid, IMO, football finances are structured very differently in those parts.

Fans in England don't own football clubs any more than cinema-goers own the film. All they get for their £2.50 is the right to occupy a seat for 90 minutes.

Arsenal fans are very happy with that, too. They must be - the ground (one of the largest capacity in the EPL) is sold out for all home games, despite prices being amongst, if not, the highest priced.

I don't post a about the culpability of Directors and Shareholders, no. Why would I? How they spend their money is down to them, they can spend it any which way they so choose, in the same way as you and I spend our own money on what we decide, not others.

It's just how I see things Ray, it's neither rude nor holding others in contempt. I respect your views, I just don't agree with them. That's not contempt, that's a debate.

And yes, I do think most of these Directors, shareholders and Managers know far more about football than any of us here, you and me included.

[Killerkilsby]

Been a while since you been to the Cinema Tikay :-)

£2.50 won't even buy you 10 bon bons nowadays.

Went earlier and didn't have much change from £30 for 2 people with drink and popcorn!

[tikay]

Been a while since you been to the Cinema Tikay :-)

£2.50 won't even buy you 10 bon bons nowadays.

Went earlier and didn't have much change from £30 for 2 people with drink and popcorn!

Ridic.

Sack the cinema owners.

[muckthenuts]

Newcastle only really spend money when they've nearly been relegated or are looking like they are going to be relegated

This is sort of what it feels like to be an Arsenal fan. We do just enough to stay in the top 4 but never show any kind of ambition to hit the next level. Forever short a player or two.

[Karabiner]

I always feel that AW gets involved in the transfer market as though it were his own money with no DD to egg him on and push the boat out.

Jose for instance might spend what is a clearly an over-the-top £100M on Pogba without batting an eyelid, and wouldn't give a hoot if he bombed, other than it being a minor dent to a massive ego. The same goes for Pep, and Conte in a way, as they only see three years as the optimum/maximum tenure working for one club and have no real loyalty beyond that.

The sad truth is that most of the time Arsenal have to let the clubs with unlimited funds pay the crazy transfer fees and then take the best of what is left.

[POWWWWWWWW]

I always feel that AW gets involved in the transfer market as though it were his own money with no DD to egg him on and push the boat out.

Jose for instance might spend what is a clearly an over-the-top £100M on Pogba without batting an eyelid, and wouldn't give a hoot if he bombed, other than it being a minor dent to a massive ego. The same goes for Pep, and Conte in a way, as they only see three years as the optimum/maximum tenure working for one club and have no real loyalty beyond that.

The sad truth is that most of the time Arsenal have to let the clubs with unlimited funds pay the crazy transfer fees and then take the best of what is left.

This isn't AW fault though at all. Arsenal are in a tricky position where yes they do have the money for a big signing most years, but if that signing bombs they are f****d. It also doesn't help that their are hardly any players available in the positions he needs and the fact that his usual trick of sniping a young hot prospect to replace a starter (Henry, RVP) has been screwed by City, Chelsea, Real hoovering up a lot of the younger player pool. Like he's pretty much stuck.

[mondatoo]

Interesting tikay that you keep regigurtaitng the same arguement over and over in each football thread with what has to be described as borderline contempt for "the fans" yet the recent Deloitte financial findings in January 2016 have the two most successful clubs being Real Madrid and Barcelona, despite the huge amount of money in the Permier League. If I'm not mistaken they are both owned by "the fans" ?

I can't remember ever seeing one post you've made in any football thread regards to culpability for some of these genius businessmen and women who run and own these clubs yet there's been countless times were you state they must be right and the fans must be wrong, do you think these people are all immune to mistakes or you just never get round to posting when that happens ?

"contempt for fans"?  That's a bit harsh, Ray. Not sure I generally do contempt for others, especially my friends here.

We could equally debate "contempt for the owners".

Turn it on its head. If you were to invest the bulk ( or a significant proportion) of your net worth into something you cared a great deal about, would you really allow others to tell you how you should look after it? I know that if someone tells how I should or should not spend my own money what my reaction would be - GTFO. Pretty sure you'd think the same, too. The Directors and shareholders of Arsenal have employed AW for 20 years, so it seems to me they are extremely pleased with what he has achieved during his lengthy tenure. And they pay his wages. Any suggestion that fans pay the wages is wrong. When we buy a dozen eggs from Tesco, it does not pay anyone's wages, it just gets us a pack of eggs. How Tesco spend that income is nothing to do with us.

The comparison with Spanish football is invalid, IMO, football finances are structured very differently in those parts.

Fans in England don't own football clubs any more than cinema-goers own the film. All they get for their £2.50 is the right to occupy a seat for 90 minutes.

Arsenal fans are very happy with that, too. They must be - the ground (one of the largest capacity in the EPL) is sold out for all home games, despite prices being amongst, if not, the highest priced.

I don't post a about the culpability of Directors and Shareholders, no. Why would I? How they spend their money is down to them, they can spend it any which way they so choose, in the same way as you and I spend our own money on what we decide, not others.

It's just how I see things Ray, it's neither rude nor holding others in contempt. I respect your views, I just don't agree with them. That's not contempt, that's a debate.

And yes, I do think most of these Directors, shareholders and Managers know far more about football than any of us here, you and me included.

I had to check the definition of contempt before I made that post

It's definition includes a person considers something to be worthless, you wouldn't agree you have many times basically said that football fans have no value ? I don't think that has anything to do with your friendships on here. I would say the vast majority of the people don't invest a great deal of there net worth or care a great deal, that is of course just my opinion though.

I don't think I've been rude or disrespectful to your views either, just similarly disagree.