Staking deals and markup. Discussion?

[Doobs]

selling at 80-20= ?

isn't that more the norm these days?

The only thing is, is somebody going to be motivated to grind a 12bb stack when they are only going to get 20% of a cash? Like sitting there for 2 days close to the bubble you're probably going to make ICM mistakes around the bubble because you need a stack to justify any kind of hourly.

I think generally anybody who plays a tournament should have at least 35% of themselves. But of course who am I to say how motivated somebody is going to be.

Yeh I mean, even with 70/30s saying Joe Bloggs ROI in the £500 deepstack is 25%, that means he's going to make on average £125 everytime he plays it, and say he play's it for 6 hours on average. If he's only getting 20/30% of the profits he's making £25 or £37.50 everytime. Across 6 hours that's an hourly of £4-£6....

.....and his backer is going to be losing 17%(£85) every time he plays it.

I play a £1000 GUKPT.  I'd like to think I am still fairly positive roi in these, but it probably costs me upwards of £100 in expenses even before I cost in the time off work.  So overall my EV is probably negative, so reallistically I am just playing for ego reasons, and I am a bit of a masochist for stil playing them.

Yet somebody who isn't rolled for it wants to mantain £6 an hour, while I lose 17% backing them.  You serious?

If you aren't happily with the hourly of slow structured deepstack live donkaments, don't play.  

[Whollyflush]

I mean this issue only comes about because ppl actually buy these type of packages. Sure there almost always terrible value, but the ppl would buy these have their reasons and generally just fancy a punt so fair play. If it sells, more power to the person freerolling if not they will have to offer something that nearly constitutes value....

[the sicilian]

I don't really care how much the mark up is etc etc... up to the buyer what he wants to buy and at what rate as has been discussed numerous times.

I just found it a bit odd to ask for 100% staking into  £500+ comps on a regular basis and then say if you binked you would continue to ask for a 100% staking... thats like saying to your mate im on my uppers can I come and stay with you and eat ur food but if i win the lottery id like you to still keep me..

[smashedagain]

With  not winning a seat this weekend I decided to help out the blog during the devilfish stream then after with Tighty. Before the event I had numerous people on here and Facebook saying they wanted to buy a piece of me. 7 people in total wanted between 10% and 75% and could have sold out almost 3 times. I assume that these offers would all be at 1: 1.0.

As I am walking around blogging Everyman and his dog is like "did you play yesterday " and I explain that I only play deepstacks if I win a seat ( due to family commitments and traveling light as Tikays diary would put it ). Two guys offered to put me in then and there as a late registration, one splitting the money 70/30 and one 50/50 ( I politely declined their offers I know of people that sell at 2.0 and think this equates to the being put in at a 50/50 split).

Surely is the market not dictated to by supply and demand. The guys who sells at 70/30 can't have his ethics questioned but is just taking the best option that is available to him. If making him put the deal is actually 1:1.3 (Triggs figure) looks a bit more transparent then I am sure he would do it.

Just to make sure we are all on a level playing field I have noticed that a lot of people moaning about reds 70/30 and advocating using the other system are backed players in make up deals. Can you work out for me in the 1:1.x formula what the amount is when you are put into tournies for 50% on a make up deal.  I would bet the price that you get it is not far off the price that red has asked.

[cambridgealex]

The deal I have is that my buyins are paid for in full and I get to keep 50% of the profits. That would be @ 2.0 were it not for the makeup. I don't know whether it's possible to calculate an equivalent figure taking into account the makeup component. 

[EvilPie]

Make up deals are completely different Jase. You can't compare them at all.

The player gets all his buy ins paid for but he owes the staker all of the money. It's just a loan really with the player basically working for the staker and earning a wage based on how much he wins.

[titaniumbean]

Galen Hall put up some interesting staking thoughts on 2+2 recently, though obviously it is more apt for Americans with the tax implications he discusses ...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/184/staking-selling-shares-live/couple-thoughts-about-markup-1175405/

[Dubai]

Funny timing, was gonna put staking thread up for big buyin comp and was playing around with what price to charge cos think its the type of comp people overestimate the field quality and underestimate edges due to size of the buyin and misperception of players abilities. Will leave it a few weeks now

[bobby1]

Just my opinion...I have always thought it a little cheeky when I see these 70/30 fully staked by backers. The player wants to free roll the event but is basically saying up front that I don't want to have my own cash at risk. It isn't rocket science surely, if you are not rolled to play a 500 event, or you are not comfy putting your money into it, why are you asking to play it?

Just play the 50/100/150 that you can afford.

[smashedagain]

The deal I have is that my buyins are paid for in full and I get to keep 50% of the profits. That would be @ 2.0 were it not for the makeup. I don't know whether it's possible to calculate an equivalent figure taking into account the makeup component. 

Ok Ty for being open and obv makeup has to reduce that 2.0 considerably tho.

Yeah I do get that also Matt but for people to say 70/30 is not value and have a dig is completely wrong. If you are happy to buy buy but if you are not happy to buy then don't.  

After back to back finals ceri must be considered better value than Tikay but who are we to say that they should ask between 1:1.0/1.3.  I am pretty sure if either of em put up a staking thread asking for 1:2 they would both sell out (both for differing reasons)

[smashedagain]

Funny timing, was gonna put staking thread up for big buyin comp and was playing around with what price to charge cos think its the type of comp people overestimate the field quality and underestimate edges due to size of the buyin and misperception of players abilities. Will leave it a few weeks now

You will get 1:2.5 you legend ( just not off Tom)

[JK]

Funny timing, was gonna put staking thread up for big buyin comp and was playing around with what price to charge cos think its the type of comp people overestimate the field quality and underestimate edges due to size of the buyin and misperception of players abilities. Will leave it a few weeks now

Whens the $25k mate?

[tikay]

The deal I have is that my buyins are paid for in full and I get to keep 50% of the profits. That would be @ 2.0 were it not for the makeup. I don't know whether it's possible to calculate an equivalent figure taking into account the makeup component. 

Ok Ty for being open and obv makeup has to reduce that 2.0 considerably tho.

Yeah I do get that also Matt but for people to say 70/30 is not value and have a dig is completely wrong. If you are happy to buy buy but if you are not happy to buy then don't.  

After back to back finals ceri must be considered better value than Tikay but who are we to say that they should ask between 1:1.0/1.3.  I am pretty sure if either of em put up a staking thread asking for 1:2 they would both sell out (both for differing reasons)

That is what we used to call a SOTBO

[edgascoigne]

Funny timing, was gonna put staking thread up for big buyin comp and was playing around with what price to charge cos think its the type of comp people overestimate the field quality and underestimate edges due to size of the buyin and misperception of players abilities. Will leave it a few weeks now

Whens the $25k mate?

Surely the $1mil One-Drop at the WSOP?

[JK]

Funny timing, was gonna put staking thread up for big buyin comp and was playing around with what price to charge cos think its the type of comp people overestimate the field quality and underestimate edges due to size of the buyin and misperception of players abilities. Will leave it a few weeks now

Whens the $25k mate?

Surely the $1mil One-Drop at the WSOP?

Nah Dave got a seat for the $25 WPT for winning Dublin. Was just wondering when it is as have a v small %