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Author Topic: DTD £150 £50,000 Deepstack Mid-May :Day 2 and Final  (Read 46480 times)
Killerkilsby
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« Reply #360 on: May 27, 2012, 09:33:51 PM »

@Killerkilsby

The % of your stacking your calling off is NOT the most important factor when deciding whether to call allins. The number of big blinds the shove is, is FAR more important. Wadey and other good players know this.

What if the blinds in that hand were 5k 10k, Wadey raised to 25k and Gary shoved for 800k, or 80 big blinds. Would you call then?

I know the blinds weren't 5k/10k, but the point is, you don't know what they were and it could've been a very large shove compared to the blinds, so the fact it was 20% of his stack would be irrelevant.

The K9 was much later on, maybe the blinds were massive and the shove was only 10 big blinds.

That is how one can be a fold, one can be a call.

You just don't have enough information to come to the conclusions you've come to.

Okay fair point? you are correct here.
Although i do seem to remember the situations were alot more extreme than your example but you acknowledge this and it was a good example to portray your view.
I think the first shove was for a low amount of bbs and the second one was similar.
Either way bbs are important.
However stack % does come into things slightly, as if they both had similar size stacks then that would influence the decision and probably make it a fold. However if you can take a potential flip with a hand that should be ahead of your opponents range 3 handed without damaging your stack too much then it has to be a consideration.
But good point.


« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 09:37:58 PM by Killerkilsby » Logged
Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #361 on: May 28, 2012, 03:22:18 AM »

i think if we all knew blind levels and how much he opened for, before folding to the shove we can make sense here.
im happy to see anyone lay down a big hand short handed. But it cannot be justified with influence of some one outside of play.
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cambridgealex
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« Reply #362 on: May 28, 2012, 03:27:55 AM »

You're getting correlation and causality mixed up. Just because event A proceeds event B doesn't mean event B caused event A.

Frankie making that comment doesn't mean that it caused Wadey to do anything different to what he wouldve done anyway.
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #363 on: May 28, 2012, 03:29:02 AM »

@Killerkilsby

You just don't have enough information to come to the conclusions you've come to.

then surely this goes for anyone's view on the topic?
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« Reply #364 on: May 28, 2012, 04:02:37 AM »

Anyone that is of the opinion "Folding A9 there is softplay", yes.
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #365 on: May 28, 2012, 04:23:47 AM »


Wadey calls stable boss of North over. Chinese Frankie tells him he will fall out with him if he knocks his horse out


Wadey passes A-9 off "folding a good hand here" for about 800,000 of his 6m stack

North shows 9-8 suited

"anyone else I call" says Wadey


Should call anyway, don't care if he's local village or not - Wadey,

blinds will be 30k/60k
lets say standard open 2.2x
estimated 130k-ish
sitting with approx 13-15bb's vs an approx 100+bb stack

you telling me that isnt an influenced fold and portrayed to be soft/collusion?

as i said in my last post, i can accept anyone making a major fold short handed but with outside influence, that's a joke.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 04:27:30 AM by Oxford_HRV » Logged

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« Reply #366 on: May 28, 2012, 04:54:53 AM »


Wadey calls stable boss of North over. Chinese Frankie tells him he will fall out with him if he knocks his horse out


Wadey passes A-9 off "folding a good hand here" for about 800,000 of his 6m stack

North shows 9-8 suited

"anyone else I call" says Wadey


Should call anyway, don't care if he's local village or not - Wadey,

blinds will be 30k/60k
lets say standard open 2.2x
estimated 130k-ish
sitting with approx 13-15bb's vs an approx 100+bb stack

you telling me that isnt an influenced fold and portrayed to be soft/collusion?

as i said in my last post, i can accept anyone making a major fold short handed but with outside influence, that's a joke.


It's not like he has AK.

What if he had A6o would he "have to call" there? I don't think so. A9 is a call, but its not far off from being a fold. If A6 is a fold, then A9 isnt exactly "OMG wtf collusion"
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #367 on: May 28, 2012, 05:25:42 AM »

dude you are just ignoring my point consistently.... im not happy with the fold purely because frankie says to him he will fall out with him if he knocks out his horse. so he makes the fold of a 13-15bb shove against his 100+ stack. if he was left to tank alone and made the fold NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #368 on: May 28, 2012, 05:53:48 AM »

I think that they have already said he wouldn't care about knocking Frankie's horse out and it's just coincidental that these two incidents happened at the same time.

Not everyone plays fundamentally correct and sometimes ppl make 'lol folds' or 'lol calls' just because they like the colour of the cards or they don't feel lucky at the time.

People who play live poker exclusively and aren't aware of the maths will play as they feel so pot odds, effective stacks will not come into it. Looking at it objectively I'm guessing that's what happened here. Just unfortunate that he had a hand which when sat on the outside looking in as an observer appears to be an easy call.

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david3103
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« Reply #369 on: May 28, 2012, 08:14:49 AM »

dude you are just ignoring my point consistently.... im not happy with the fold purely because frankie says to him he will fall out with him if he knocks out his horse. so he makes the fold of a 13-15bb shove against his 100+ stack. if he was left to tank alone and made the fold NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time to let it go Oxford. I had the same feelings when I first read the update but subsequent events and comments from people who know wadey and frankie far better than you or I have convinced me it was all innocent japes.

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« Reply #370 on: May 28, 2012, 09:35:50 AM »

I just phoned Wadey to find out what the score was with the hand. He told me he could not talk now as he was busy and to try again in another month when he has stopped rubbing the £15 grand all over his titties.
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« Reply #371 on: May 28, 2012, 10:33:59 AM »

Im sure you can fold what you want at any time.
If he thinks he is behind or does not want to race then its ok ?
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Killerkilsby
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« Reply #372 on: May 28, 2012, 11:00:56 AM »

Im sure you can fold what you want at any time.
If he thinks he is behind or does not want to race then its ok ?

Depends if it is influenced or not.


Wadey calls stable boss of North over. Chinese Frankie tells him he will fall out with him if he knocks his horse out


Wadey passes A-9 off "folding a good hand here" for about 800,000 of his 6m stack

North shows 9-8 suited

"anyone else I call" says Wadey


Should call anyway, don't care if he's local village or not - Wadey,

At the time, it seems i was not the only one with this opinion.


blinds will be 30k/60k
lets say standard open 2.2x
estimated 130k-ish
sitting with approx 13-15bb's vs an approx 100+bb stack

you telling me that isnt an influenced fold and portrayed to be soft/collusion?

as i said in my last post, i can accept anyone making a major fold short handed but with outside influence, that's a joke.


It's not like he has AK.

What if he had A6o would he "have to call" there? I don't think so. A9 is a call, but its not far off from being a fold. If A6 is a fold, then A9 isnt exactly "OMG wtf collusion"

Have never sat there and precicesly said OMG wtf collusion. A6 suddenly becomes a little more marginal, but with the right image in a 3 handed game, then any ace is huge. Although i do agree you may not wish to double someone up, but at some point you have to take an all in and this would seem a perfect time to do so.

What i really want to know is how this would have been taken had the fold and speechplay been committed by say.. Paul Skipper to one of his associates?

I can say in my absolute honest opinion there would have been outrage on here, page after page of discussion and accusations would have made, undoubtably making worse comments than myself.

I am healthily debating a hand of interest to me here, and at no point am outright saying it WAS, collusion, just trying to add some balance now.

Regardless
I think that they have already said he wouldn't care about knocking Frankie's horse out and it's just coincidental that these two incidents happened at the same time.

Not everyone plays fundamentally correct and sometimes ppl make 'lol folds' or 'lol calls' just because they like the colour of the cards or they don't feel lucky at the time.

People who play live poker exclusively and aren't aware of the maths will play as they feel so pot odds, effective stacks will not come into it. Looking at it objectively I'm guessing that's what happened here. Just unfortunate that he had a hand which when sat on the outside looking in as an observer appears to be an easy call.



Point taken.
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« Reply #373 on: May 28, 2012, 11:10:43 AM »


I can say in my absolute honest opinion there would have been outrage on here, page after page of discussion and accusations would have made....



like this aftermath, you mean? ;-0
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Killerkilsby
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« Reply #374 on: May 28, 2012, 11:11:45 AM »


I can say in my absolute honest opinion there would have been outrage on here, page after page of discussion and accusations would have made....



like this aftermath, you mean? ;-0

Errrrr Wp.

I meant more than this one, but i can't respond. Wp.
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