Main Event Hand

[SuuPRlim]

Had a hand in the main, which I thought was really hard. Spent most of the tournament at my own funeral anyways

I have 19k after some nasty hands, 50/100

I open   to 300 UTG, get called in three spots before the BTN makes it 800. People have been doing this all level and I really don't know what it means I think that it must be strong, but then I cant fathom why he wouldn't squeeze to more if he had a big hand, but then it's also possible he doesn't want to over-infllate, but then it's likely to be 5 way OTF so will be inflated anyways?? :S I really don't know lol - the guy is a mid 40's quuite well dressed guy, would think not a pro but has been playing well - as has all the table tbh.

I call, IDK what everyone thinks or 4bet/folding had many good players tell me different things, I opted for the call purely because I was completely unsure of anything lol + two of the callers in between are v good high stakes cash regs I have played a lot with. All call so 5 way to the flop.

  (4,150)

Chk,chk,chk,chk, 3better bets 2,850. I call, folds round to the last person to act who calls as well. That player is ~26-28 wearing headphones handles chips like he's played a lot and again has been playing well from what I can see.

  (12,750)

chk, chk, chk.

(12,750)

chk, chk, bets 8,800

I have basically 15k exactly (3 orange chips + change) he knows my exact chips as well (he asked before he bet) he did not however, ask the other player in the hand, who has about 25k - he covers us both comfortably.

What do you all think?

[SuuPRlim]

EDIT:

the queen was the non spade card OTF, I think that is quite relevant.

[Dubai]

I 4b/f pre, and I b/f the river

Edit if I'm you

[Boba Fett]

peeling is fine, deffo dont wanna 4bet/fold.  Feels like you're chopping at best, fold river although all summer Ive seen people overvalue massively in the wsop

[muckthenuts]

I think specifically for the main event calling pre >>> 4betting.

I'd bet river too.

[MC]

4b looks good. Would look super strong and can fold to 5b comfortably. Hard to win the hand 5 way oop!

I think bet/fold river too.

I want to Negreanu the river but it's a fold. He has AQ, AA, QQ sometimes. Guy in the middle is a small problem though not too concerned. Villain probs has AK too though.

[skolsuper]

Defs flat pre, your hand plays pretty well 5-way due to its suitedness. Check/fold flop.

[DMorgan]

4b >>>>>>>>>>>>> flat imo

When he makes it this sizing and given our blockers I think this is QQ/JJ a huuuuuuge %age of the time. If this is true then we should for sure 4b because he's going to fold JJ pre a lot of the time, sometimes QQ if you make your 4b size fairly big. Sometimes he'll have AA/KK but he'll always 5b AA so I don't think him having KK should be of huge concern.

If my assertion that he has QQ/JJ is true then him calling is totally fine. Even if it comes 9 high you can just bet big, rep the AA/KK cos I think its highly unlikely that he's going to stack QQ in level 1 of the main event with this preflop action. If he is wider than QQ/JJ pre then 4b gets even better.

As played I think flop is a c/f. With the combination of the preflop action and the fact that its 5 ways to the flop I think he bets the flop with worse 0% of the time. With his turn and river lines I think his range is just QQ, AA, sometimes AQ.

Betting at any point postflop is an absolute disaster imo

[SuuPRlim]

At the time I thought betting the river would be horrible, quite a few people wanna bet but I just cant find any merit in it, anyone have any decent pro's for river b/f?

I know this is going off tangent a bit, but after the hand I got to thinking, what would I have done on an ACE river

[skolsuper]

4b >>>>>>>>>>>>> flat imo

When he makes it this sizing and given our blockers I think this is QQ/JJ a huuuuuuge %age of the time. If this is true then we should for sure 4b because he's going to fold JJ pre a lot of the time, sometimes QQ if you make your 4b size fairly big. Sometimes he'll have AA/KK but he'll always 5b AA so I don't think him having KK should be of huge concern.

If my assertion that he has QQ/JJ is true then him calling is totally fine. Even if it comes 9 high you can just bet big, rep the AA/KK cos I think its highly unlikely that he's going to stack QQ in level 1 of the main event with this preflop action. If he is wider than QQ/JJ pre then 4b gets even better.

As played I think flop is a c/f. With the combination of the preflop action and the fact that its 5 ways to the flop I think he bets the flop with worse 0% of the time. With his turn and river lines I think his range is just QQ, AA, sometimes AQ.

Betting at any point postflop is an absolute disaster imo

I very strongly disagree with the bolded parts. I also don't usually try to make people fold overpairs, and that will be your only option if you do 4b pre.

[SuuPRlim]

folding the flop. I did consider this OTF, my stack is a very tricky size and Im OOP playing guessing games vs what's prolly just a legit very good hand, the more I think the more I agree this is a pretty good option. I think my 1 red card on the flop disauded me folding, which on reflection is defo a mistake as the P2S seems way to shallow by that point to be paying too much to BD equity

[DMorgan]

4b >>>>>>>>>>>>> flat imo

When he makes it this sizing and given our blockers I think this is QQ/JJ a huuuuuuge %age of the time. If this is true then we should for sure 4b because he's going to fold JJ pre a lot of the time, sometimes QQ if you make your 4b size fairly big. Sometimes he'll have AA/KK but he'll always 5b AA so I don't think him having KK should be of huge concern.

If my assertion that he has QQ/JJ is true then him calling is totally fine. Even if it comes 9 high you can just bet big, rep the AA/KK cos I think its highly unlikely that he's going to stack QQ in level 1 of the main event with this preflop action. If he is wider than QQ/JJ pre then 4b gets even better.

As played I think flop is a c/f. With the combination of the preflop action and the fact that its 5 ways to the flop I think he bets the flop with worse 0% of the time. With his turn and river lines I think his range is just QQ, AA, sometimes AQ.

Betting at any point postflop is an absolute disaster imo

I very strongly disagree with the bolded parts. I also don't usually try to make people fold overpairs, and that will be your only option if you do 4b pre.

Ok, then what do you think is a reasonable range to give villain pre?

The only way that I can see flatting and taking a flop out of position 5 ways having better expectation than 4betting is if we think that villain has KK+? Which from his sizing would infer that he's trying to induce a light 4b...which vs that range AKs would be. Even the biggest whale is going to be aware that when he makes it this size he's going 5 ways to the flop. That takes some weight away from my argument too - I think he'd probably make it bigger with QQ and JJ too but if we're giving him any wider than that then we can just 4bet for value - plus we have blockers to the KK+

4betting obviously gets really messy if we're getting peeled light but I just don't see a random punter peeling a big 4bet with the 99/QJs here and making life difficult postflop in level 1 of the main event. Its hardly uncommon to see people making big preflop folds in this particular tournament.

Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree but I really don't see him having a preflop range here that flatting is going to have better expectation against than a 4bet/cbet.

[judgedredd13]

I personally think river is misplayed. I think the best line on river is bet folding then 2nd best check folding. Guy who overcalls most likely hands are ax and 3better can have anything. I think if we bet 5400 on river we can rep all the missed draws and get looked up by pretty much any ax hand. If were raised they always have us beat so is an easy fold as the nuts is in our range so would be suicidal for them to run a huge bluff here imo. If we dont think our hand is good enough to bet fold I think we should be check folding rivers. So I think we get more info from betting than checking, as if they call we should be pretty much always good and never good when we are raised and we get to cheaper showdown by leading which I think is better in spots were not extremely confident where we are

[SuuPRlim]

we get to cheaper showdown by leading which I think is better in spots were not extremely confident where we are

I dont think this is true of spots where the range of hands that beats us is so nutted (basically just QQ and AA)

[pleno1]

Hey guys

What our flatting range pre and if he makes it 1200 what's our flattog range?