Holding Kings

[Royal Flush]

How does he 'read' he is behind?

He reads confidence in his opponent? Well his oppo likes that flop if he had QQ JJ TT......

you can't put someone on 1 hand, you have a range, snoopy was ahead to this range, so surely its a bad fold?

Especially with no info on the player, now if he had played him every week for 2 years then you would have a point.

[The Baron]

Wouldn't QQ JJ TT go all in on this flop? Instead of betting 2k out of 3k?

[Royal Flush]

Wouldn't QQ JJ TT go all in on this flop? Instead of betting 2k out of 3k?

Betting 2k is the same as all in here, there is 10k in the pot after he bets 2k, i really dont see him passing for 1k, regardless of his hand.

[The Baron]

The bet smells of aces to me. It's so strong - he wants a call/raise. Only aces is unafraid of this flop when considering the pre flop action. I know it'd be a move you 'should' do with QQ to look stronger - but this is a £30 freezeout not the WSOP.

Granted, you can never know 100% what someone has. Going with your gut is part of it. However Snoops says he was fairly certain. His read was correct. Had the guy turned over QQ then bad pass, but if you are correct how wrong can you be?

If Johnny Chan had made the same pass on TV everyone would be treating him like a god.

[Gamblor21]

I dont like to agree with royal flush much! But in this instants i do... What were saying is that Passing kings is great but you will make the wrong decision more often than not, As putting a guy on aces is very difficult! Where a range of hands is far easier.

Dont make a habit of passing Kings, its not good for your health!

[The Baron]

I'm sure if the guy would have had QQ, Snoops would have read that perfectly too and reraised pre flop!!

After everything I've said I've gotta be honest - I would have lost all my chips preflop. Or in Snoopy's position, post flop too.

[The Baron]

Gamblor/Royal Flush, just wanna know your views on this....

I read about a heads up cash game Stu Ungar was in once (Hold'em). He's gotten involved in a pot with a huge draw and failed to hit on the river. He now has 10 high (or something really crap).

His opponent bets very big on the river (sorry I cant remember details - it may have been all in) and the way the board has fallen Ungar knows he can only be beating 2 or 3 hands possible which haven't hit the board in some way.

However he is convinced he's winning and that the guy has one of these holdings by the betting that has gone before. He calls and wins the pot and the hand is now stuff of legend.

Is that considered a bad call as most of the time it is a losing play?

[Royal Flush]

Gamblor/Royal Flush, just wanna know your views on this....

I read about a heads up cash game Stu Ungar was in once (Hold'em). He's gotten involved in a pot with a huge draw and failed to hit on the river. He now has 10 high (or something really crap).

His opponent bets very big on the river (sorry I cant remember details - it may have been all in) and the way the board has fallen Ungar knows he can only be beating 2 or 3 hands possible which haven't hit the board in some way.

However he is convinced he's winning and that the guy has one of these holdings by the betting that has gone before. He calls and wins the pot and the hand is now stuff of legend.

Is that considered a bad call as most of the time it is a losing play?

I remember a hand i read from doyle brunson which was similar, he had missed a str8 draw and had jack high. The diffrence is Doyle played the guy week in week out for years, he knew the guys game and so could make the call.

As for if Johnny Chan had made the pass, it makes no diffrence its still poor!

[The Baron]

Yup another excellent point there.

So hypothetically, if Snoopy passes this hand when he's behind but calls every other hand with KK in a similar position when he's ahead (which is impossible obviously), would you consider the fold he makes still to be poor just because it is not the percentage play?

My point being; if Snoopy always plays by the %'s he'll win long run, but doesn't that take something away from the game?

I mean generally speaking I agree with what you are saying. The mojority of the time Snoopy shouldn't pass here, (I bet the majority of the time he wouldn't either!) but if he does pass this hand on those times he is behind surely he's doing something right?

[Gamblor21]

Yes i said earlier, him passing in this spot is brilliant play but overall you will get it wrong so many more times than you are right!

Stu ungar was reading an absolute bluff therefore he must've had some information on why his 10 high was good,  amazing but he would'nt do it very often! He has had 4 betting rounds for info, lots more info than snoopy had...

[Royal Flush]

In a word yes, it comes down to whether you can put a guy on AA, and nothing else, to do that you need to know the players game. Since this was a first encounter this is not possible!

[thetank]

Just read this thread and all i can say is 
I don't think I could have got away from that flop in a million years. If I were passing, it would have to be pre-flop (and I wouldn't)

When I tell a story like this it's all about a big laydown I almost made. I get married to my KK and ignore the signs. Snoopy is destined for great things.

[snoopy1239]

Hi guys. This is an interesting debate which I new would arise. This is why I posted the hand I guess.

Anyhow, I don't have too much time to post at the moment, but, what I will say is that I don't make a habit of passing kings. From what I recall, I've never passes kings in a situation like this. However, sometimes your gut instinct and a number if other factors scream at you to pass. The amount of times I've ignored these shouts and been proven correct is coutless.

In all the similar situations I've been in, this is the first time that I've passed the kings. I suspected them preflop and decided that he had them on the flop.

[Phil]

Snoopy, completely off topic, but were you shopping in Nottingham today?

[Longy]

Lol go to live tournament updates mate.