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Author Topic: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?  (Read 10367 times)
aaron1867
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« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2012, 04:50:34 AM »


btw people wanting to stream cash games for fun sounds like some kinda moody shit.

Not moody, I think it's all about those players wanting to be "ohh look at me playing 2/5"

It is a ridic idea, imo.
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dik9
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« Reply #76 on: September 26, 2012, 09:18:47 AM »



On another point, and one close to my heart, the poker players lack an established trade body/association etc to lobby effectively other stakeholders in live and online poker such as organisers, sponsors, regulators etc.



Whatever happened to APAT btw 
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« Reply #77 on: September 26, 2012, 09:21:18 AM »



On another point, and one close to my heart, the poker players lack an established trade body/association etc to lobby effectively other stakeholders in live and online poker such as organisers, sponsors, regulators etc.



Whatever happened to APAT btw 

Nothing happened to APAT, still operating very effectively and doing well. The Association side would have needed a real, almost full time, focus, which none of us had the time to give. Pretty sure its still an aspiration though.
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blueace
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« Reply #78 on: September 26, 2012, 09:51:14 AM »

Interesting debate. I support the streams 100%. Not a big fan of my face being on the net, but its great that friends (and friends of friends), and family can watch the action and this will hopefully draw more people into the game.

Honestly, there was virtually nothing I could have been told about my fellow players on the streamed table that I hadn't (largely) worked out for myself by sitting playing with them. What I was told was just confirmation of my own thoughts 99% of the time. Besides, we all have the same advantage/disadvantage and if we're any good can adjust our play and gears to keep people off the scent.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 09:53:15 AM by blueace » Logged
MANTIS01
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« Reply #79 on: September 26, 2012, 02:21:59 PM »

Interesting debate. I support the streams 100%. Not a big fan of my face being on the net, but its great that friends (and friends of friends), and family can watch the action and this will hopefully draw more people into the game.

Honestly, there was virtually nothing I could have been told about my fellow players on the streamed table that I hadn't (largely) worked out for myself by sitting playing with them. What I was told was just confirmation of my own thoughts 99% of the time. Besides, we all have the same advantage/disadvantage and if we're any good can adjust our play and gears to keep people off the scent.

The problem for these new players attracted to the game is they won’t be any good. So they won’t have the skills to adjust gears and throw people off the scent. That's why streaming gives a further advantage to better players, making the playing field less level for novice players. And I'm sure competition organisers don't want a less fair environment for newcomers.

Myself, I am not 99% certain of reads and would find hole card info very useful in determining strategy.

In business terms streaming makes perfect sense and in terms of increasing runners I guess it works but let’s not kid ourselves this measure is good for the novice player. I think it would be very easy for new players to feel colluded against if locals are huddling up in breaks, in fact I would feel like that.

A horse plays a big money final and his whole stable are doing a sweat session. At the break they deliver strategy updates based on 100% accurate ranges and any body language tells they have linked directly to actual hand strength. I would find that to be bollocks really and it would definitely ruin my tournament experience. I simply don't have a gang of pokerstove geek friends so don't see how I have the same advantage as the horse.
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« Reply #80 on: September 26, 2012, 02:46:28 PM »

vote at the beginning of the comp? failing that keys' idea seems the most valid.
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blueace
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« Reply #81 on: September 26, 2012, 03:48:17 PM »

Interesting debate. I support the streams 100%. Not a big fan of my face being on the net, but its great that friends (and friends of friends), and family can watch the action and this will hopefully draw more people into the game.

Honestly, there was virtually nothing I could have been told about my fellow players on the streamed table that I hadn't (largely) worked out for myself by sitting playing with them. What I was told was just confirmation of my own thoughts 99% of the time. Besides, we all have the same advantage/disadvantage and if we're any good can adjust our play and gears to keep people off the scent.

The problem for these new players attracted to the game is they won’t be any good. So they won’t have the skills to adjust gears and throw people off the scent. That's why streaming gives a further advantage to better players, making the playing field less level for novice players. And I'm sure competition organisers don't want a less fair environment for newcomers.

Myself, I am not 99% certain of reads and would find hole card info very useful in determining strategy.

In business terms streaming makes perfect sense and in terms of increasing runners I guess it works but let’s not kid ourselves this measure is good for the novice player. I think it would be very easy for new players to feel colluded against if locals are huddling up in breaks, in fact I would feel like that.

A horse plays a big money final and his whole stable are doing a sweat session. At the break they deliver strategy updates based on 100% accurate ranges and any body language tells they have linked directly to actual hand strength. I would find that to be bollocks really and it would definitely ruin my tournament experience. I simply don't have a gang of pokerstove geek friends so don't see how I have the same advantage as the horse.

So it follows that we will be unlikely to see these people reach a final streamed table? If they really are that much of a beginner the only way they can win a big torn is to find AA/KK every other orbit anyway.

Sadly I do not have a 99% hit rate on reads, but accurately gauging someone’s style of play is 100% essential. When playing the streamed final any information that I gauged (which was isolated and only in response to the fact someone openly quoted a hand of mine on the table) had little or no effect on the way I was treating each player, as I had already noted their styles and observed showdowns, etc.

I have in a previous post stated that it made me feel uncomfortable that a player was telling me about my hand from 20 minutes previously, but that’s not a good enough reason to stop streaming. Those ‘against’ are probably afraid of people scrutinising their play, irrespective.
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skolsuper
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« Reply #82 on: September 26, 2012, 04:14:46 PM »

Interesting debate. I support the streams 100%. Not a big fan of my face being on the net, but its great that friends (and friends of friends), and family can watch the action and this will hopefully draw more people into the game.

Honestly, there was virtually nothing I could have been told about my fellow players on the streamed table that I hadn't (largely) worked out for myself by sitting playing with them. What I was told was just confirmation of my own thoughts 99% of the time. Besides, we all have the same advantage/disadvantage and if we're any good can adjust our play and gears to keep people off the scent.

The problem for these new players attracted to the game is they won’t be any good. So they won’t have the skills to adjust gears and throw people off the scent. That's why streaming gives a further advantage to better players, making the playing field less level for novice players. And I'm sure competition organisers don't want a less fair environment for newcomers.

Myself, I am not 99% certain of reads and would find hole card info very useful in determining strategy.

In business terms streaming makes perfect sense and in terms of increasing runners I guess it works but let’s not kid ourselves this measure is good for the novice player. I think it would be very easy for new players to feel colluded against if locals are huddling up in breaks, in fact I would feel like that.

A horse plays a big money final and his whole stable are doing a sweat session. At the break they deliver strategy updates based on 100% accurate ranges and any body language tells they have linked directly to actual hand strength. I would find that to be bollocks really and it would definitely ruin my tournament experience. I simply don't have a gang of pokerstove geek friends so don't see how I have the same advantage as the horse.

So it follows that we will be unlikely to see these people reach a final streamed table? If they really are that much of a beginner the only way they can win a big torn is to find AA/KK every other orbit anyway.

Sadly I do not have a 99% hit rate on reads, but accurately gauging someone’s style of play is 100% essential. When playing the streamed final any information that I gauged (which was isolated and only in response to the fact someone openly quoted a hand of mine on the table) had little or no effect on the way I was treating each player, as I had already noted their styles and observed showdowns, etc.

I have in a previous post stated that it made me feel uncomfortable that a player was telling me about my hand from 20 minutes previously, but that’s not a good enough reason to stop streaming. Those ‘against’ are probably afraid of people scrutinising their play, irrespective.


WARNING: MANTIS01 IS A TROLL. HE WILL NOT CHANGE HIS OPINION NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. HE DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THIS MATTER, HE JUST WANTS TO ARGUE.

Your posts have been good and I completely agree with them, but I just wanted you to know that any further replies to this guy will be a waste of your time. Good luck to you if you carry on.
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jgcblack
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« Reply #83 on: September 26, 2012, 10:47:52 PM »

Interesting debate. I support the streams 100%. Not a big fan of my face being on the net, but its great that friends (and friends of friends), and family can watch the action and this will hopefully draw more people into the game.

Honestly, there was virtually nothing I could have been told about my fellow players on the streamed table that I hadn't (largely) worked out for myself by sitting playing with them. What I was told was just confirmation of my own thoughts 99% of the time. Besides, we all have the same advantage/disadvantage and if we're any good can adjust our play and gears to keep people off the scent.

The problem for these new players attracted to the game is they won’t be any good. So they won’t have the skills to adjust gears and throw people off the scent. That's why streaming gives a further advantage to better players, making the playing field less level for novice players. And I'm sure competition organisers don't want a less fair environment for newcomers.

Myself, I am not 99% certain of reads and would find hole card info very useful in determining strategy.

In business terms streaming makes perfect sense and in terms of increasing runners I guess it works but let’s not kid ourselves this measure is good for the novice player. I think it would be very easy for new players to feel colluded against if locals are huddling up in breaks, in fact I would feel like that.

A horse plays a big money final and his whole stable are doing a sweat session. At the break they deliver strategy updates based on 100% accurate ranges and any body language tells they have linked directly to actual hand strength. I would find that to be bollocks really and it would definitely ruin my tournament experience. I simply don't have a gang of pokerstove geek friends so don't see how I have the same advantage as the horse.

So it follows that we will be unlikely to see these people reach a final streamed table? If they really are that much of a beginner the only way they can win a big torn is to find AA/KK every other orbit anyway.

Sadly I do not have a 99% hit rate on reads, but accurately gauging someone’s style of play is 100% essential. When playing the streamed final any information that I gauged (which was isolated and only in response to the fact someone openly quoted a hand of mine on the table) had little or no effect on the way I was treating each player, as I had already noted their styles and observed showdowns, etc.

I have in a previous post stated that it made me feel uncomfortable that a player was telling me about my hand from 20 minutes previously, but that’s not a good enough reason to stop streaming. Those ‘against’ are probably afraid of people scrutinising their play, irrespective.


WARNING: MANTIS01 IS A TROLL. HE WILL NOT CHANGE HIS OPINION NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. HE DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THIS MATTER, HE JUST WANTS TO ARGUE.

Your posts have been good and I completely agree with them, but I just wanted you to know that any further replies to this guy will be a waste of your time. Good luck to you if you carry on.

picture?
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blueace
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« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2012, 02:01:30 PM »


[/quote]

WARNING: MANTIS01 IS A TROLL. HE WILL NOT CHANGE HIS OPINION NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. HE DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THIS MATTER, HE JUST WANTS TO ARGUE.

Your posts have been good and I completely agree with them, but I just wanted you to know that any further replies to this guy will be a waste of your time. Good luck to you if you carry on.
[/quote]


Lol thanks, Ive seen some good posts from him in the past but trollish at times I guess
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2012, 08:43:07 PM »

Interesting debate. I support the streams 100%. Not a big fan of my face being on the net, but its great that friends (and friends of friends), and family can watch the action and this will hopefully draw more people into the game.

Honestly, there was virtually nothing I could have been told about my fellow players on the streamed table that I hadn't (largely) worked out for myself by sitting playing with them. What I was told was just confirmation of my own thoughts 99% of the time. Besides, we all have the same advantage/disadvantage and if we're any good can adjust our play and gears to keep people off the scent.

The problem for these new players attracted to the game is they won’t be any good. So they won’t have the skills to adjust gears and throw people off the scent. That's why streaming gives a further advantage to better players, making the playing field less level for novice players. And I'm sure competition organisers don't want a less fair environment for newcomers.

Myself, I am not 99% certain of reads and would find hole card info very useful in determining strategy.

In business terms streaming makes perfect sense and in terms of increasing runners I guess it works but let’s not kid ourselves this measure is good for the novice player. I think it would be very easy for new players to feel colluded against if locals are huddling up in breaks, in fact I would feel like that.

A horse plays a big money final and his whole stable are doing a sweat session. At the break they deliver strategy updates based on 100% accurate ranges and any body language tells they have linked directly to actual hand strength. I would find that to be bollocks really and it would definitely ruin my tournament experience. I simply don't have a gang of pokerstove geek friends so don't see how I have the same advantage as the horse.

So it follows that we will be unlikely to see these people reach a final streamed table? If they really are that much of a beginner the only way they can win a big torn is to find AA/KK every other orbit anyway.

Sadly I do not have a 99% hit rate on reads, but accurately gauging someone’s style of play is 100% essential. When playing the streamed final any information that I gauged (which was isolated and only in response to the fact someone openly quoted a hand of mine on the table) had little or no effect on the way I was treating each player, as I had already noted their styles and observed showdowns, etc.

I have in a previous post stated that it made me feel uncomfortable that a player was telling me about my hand from 20 minutes previously, but that’s not a good enough reason to stop streaming. Those ‘against’ are probably afraid of people scrutinising their play, irrespective.


WARNING: MANTIS01 IS A TROLL. HE WILL NOT CHANGE HIS OPINION NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. HE DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THIS MATTER, HE JUST WANTS TO ARGUE.

Your posts have been good and I completely agree with them, but I just wanted you to know that any further replies to this guy will be a waste of your time. Good luck to you if you carry on.

Hi blueace,

Above is an exchange between blueace, skolsuper and MANTIS01 in a thread about hole cards being on display in live streams. I would invite you to highlight which parts of this exchange you consider trollish.

Itt I have responded to a number of good posts from members who hold the opposite view to myself. I find challenging points and responding to the opposing view a good way to progress a debate. In fact a debate is pretty much opposing views coming together period. So I read your post and thought it was interesting so responded by presenting my opposite views. As far as I can see I offered you appropriate respect and didn't flame you and really just responded normally to the good points you made. Just because somebody doesn't agree with you it doesn't make them a troll. Debating is not trolling.

By comparison king of trolls skolsuper has offered nothing to this debate. A joke which wasn't funny and some proper serious capital letter trolling. It's obv to me he likes them juicy hole cards on display.
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« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2012, 09:09:54 PM »

Thanks, my response did indicate that I had read more than just this thread and that I liked the content of some of your posts. I had to agree with Skol though that they are often troll-'ish', or if you would prefer you tend to have strong opinions on issues..... I wasnt sure if skols reply was a bit tongue in cheek, but I guess not..
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DMorgan
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« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2012, 09:22:28 PM »

The theory goes that blonde created a bot designed to play devils advocate to multiply the length of threads and create more ad space.They called this bot Mantis.

Some of the management claim to have met this 'Mantis'. Conspiracy imo.

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MANTIS01
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« Reply #88 on: September 27, 2012, 09:23:05 PM »

Thanks, my response did indicate that I had read more than just this thread and that I liked the content of some of your posts. I had to agree with Skol though that they are often troll-'ish', or if you would prefer you tend to have strong opinions on issues..... I wasnt sure if skols reply was a bit tongue in cheek, but I guess not..

Nah skol's reply was trolling.

Will accept I have strong views. Don't write a whole line of text in capitals tho.
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« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2012, 09:24:02 PM »

Have you won much beside your big win Sean? I got heard your story was very similar to Robert who won the UKIPT and would love to here about it
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