Poker in Sheffield

[RickBFA]

The problem with giving away money is you have to give away money.

Do you think that casino's that (say) add £1000 to a comp that is already not paying for itself through the juice are really going to see that money again, either through the roulette tables or cash poker?

It's OK to try and add money to get a game going. then take it away again, but as soon as you do that, all your players go to the other place down the road that have started adding money.

That's true to a point but lets take the current Genting plan for Boxing Day in Sheffield.

They are holding a tourney with £5000 added I believe.

What would be more productive, adding £5k for one tourney (when alot of people have family commitments), or adding £1250 a week for 4 weeks in say, a £50 rebuy on a Monday night?

If the will was there, Raf could really get the word out and aggressively push the Monday night game - if he attracted some of the Leeds/Bradford/Nottingham lads who go to Owlerton on a Wednesday for the £20 rebuy, he could easily get 50-60 players each week.

Makes zero sense to me what they are doing, but maybe its me that's missing the point?

[aaron1867]

wish they would sort out at least 1 decent tounment

being there about 8 times twice touniments did not run and no cash games going played the 50 rebuy twice with less than 30 players.i will return but they need to sort these tounies out (((no rebuys,))

Garry, we have a decent Wednesday game, without rebuys, we are not getting into the money, I think you should know better than me that Sheffield poker wise is a rebuy city. If you want your FO's, then Sheffield and Nottingham are not far away. I agree that freezeouts in Sheffield should be around, but not sure I agree with the fact you are saying there is no game, Naps and the £20 rebuy is making decent money.

The thing is about the £20/£30 rebuys in my opinion is that they are good loss leaders for the casino's the type of people they bring in are gamblers. They surely can add £1k/£2k to the pot if they can get a £10/£15K comp going in turn that brings bigger cash games bigger roulette etc etc seems like a win to me!

The issue is to me they don't seem bothered. G got a good thing going with the sunday roast and then they messed it up! Adding seats in freerolls etc is good for the game it means you can get 20/30 freeroll qualifiers in a comp and it "adds value". I think the sunday roast type structure £50 one rebuy/ one add  is definitely a comp that is missing on a sunday in sheffield mabye even £75 double chance etc.

If i were a card room manager i would be going with £20 rebuy on a wednesday with a £10K guarntee or £1000 added something like that. And then a £75 double chance on a sunday Guarnateed at £10K also. With Freerolls running Friday Saturday nights. with say 5 added seats to the Double chance on Sunday. Mabye the Monday and Tuesday Comps could also add £20 rebuy tokens in as well so you get more players for the rebuys on Wednesday nights. For example each player on the final table of the monday and tuesday comp gets a £20 entry into the wednesday comp or a £20 rebuy etc. etc!

The £20/£30 rebuys are not loss leaders, Callum.

If Gentings, Grosevnor or Napoleons want to add a £30 rebuy and with enough marketing and word of mouth, they can become a success. Gentings are a £40 billion company and taking a loss on a £30 is a drop in the ocean, if they make a decent loss week on week, stop it. But they need to get some sort of bigger game going in the long run. I would personally guarantee a £30r on Sunday/Monday at £10k, run it for 2 weeks and see what happens, it will get nearly £10k, I am sure of that. The problem when G-Casino ran it, was that as soon as they made the £15k gte, the next 2 weeks, they assumed it would make the money LOL.

I am sure you know I am an expert on anything internettings & Twitter/Facebook each day and week, will see a possible £30r work.

A double chance that you mentioned would not be bad though.

But here, we get to understand why G-Casino are failing so much at poker.... lol.

The problem you have is that you seem to think that a Casino is reliant upon poker tourism. It certainly helps, but it doesn't really provide a huge boost to your revenue in the long run, at least to the degree that you might think.

Somewhere like DTD -needed- to do it because that's how they make their income, a casino generates income from the table games and poker players as a rule will avoid tables, not denying you get a little overflow but it's not anything significant.

It's easy to say, "But it's a loss leader" but the reality is that it's more a loss. The casino will probably have a large pool of gamblers that are going to spend huge money irrespective of poker.

Like I said, it helps.

Doesn't mean they feel a need to throw money at it. Poker players are very transactional and generally have little brand loyalty, so the only way to benefit is to constantly offer up added/additional/guaranteed prize money.

The business benefits just as much by focusing on providing a sufficient offering to the local customer base, and the loyal players.

[rfgqqabc]

G casino opened up in Teesside. Our excitement was similar to yours, but they have 4 nights a week of lol bowl comps and a monthly £100 f/o. They've tried 3 schedules now and still not guaranteed anything. The players have asked several times for various things, we've had people talk to managers, arrange games on fb, all sorts, but they still continue merrily along averaging 20 people for £20 tournaments forever. Ridiculous. Cardroom managers aren't given enough time to do anything and have the pressure of immediate results. They moved the original guy after 6 months of preventing him from doing anything to get the cardroom going. Its such a shame, its such a nice room but won't ever get going imo and i can imagine Sheffield ending up the same.

Sheffield intrigues me, I spy on with interest, might pop down in next three or four weeks for a friday night session. What's cash been like so far?

[aaron1867]

G casino opened up in Teesside. Our excitement was similar to yours, but they have 4 nights a week of lol bowl comps and a monthly £100 f/o. They've tried 3 schedules now and still not guaranteed anything. The players have asked several times for various things, we've had people talk to managers, arrange games on fb, all sorts, but they still continue merrily along averaging 20 people for £20 tournaments forever. Ridiculous. Cardroom managers aren't given enough time to do anything and have the pressure of immediate results. They moved the original guy after 6 months of preventing him from doing anything to get the cardroom going. Its such a shame, its such a nice room but won't ever get going imo and i can imagine Sheffield ending up the same.

Sheffield intrigues me, I spy on with interest, might pop down in next three or four weeks for a friday night session. What's cash been like so far?

Do you not get the feeling that the actual CRM in G-Casino's are not actual managers though? I've been to a few Grosevnor's and they seem to not be in charge of their actual card room.

As for cash in Sheffield, decent at G, not so much at Gentings at the moment.

[rfgqqabc]

G casino opened up in Teesside. Our excitement was similar to yours, but they have 4 nights a week of lol bowl comps and a monthly £100 f/o. They've tried 3 schedules now and still not guaranteed anything. The players have asked several times for various things, we've had people talk to managers, arrange games on fb, all sorts, but they still continue merrily along averaging 20 people for £20 tournaments forever. Ridiculous. Cardroom managers aren't given enough time to do anything and have the pressure of immediate results. They moved the original guy after 6 months of preventing him from doing anything to get the cardroom going. Its such a shame, its such a nice room but won't ever get going imo and i can imagine Sheffield ending up the same.

Sheffield intrigues me, I spy on with interest, might pop down in next three or four weeks for a friday night session. What's cash been like so far?

Do you not get the feeling that the actual CRM in G-Casino's are not actual managers though? I've been to a few Grosevnor's and they seem to not be in charge of their actual card room.

As for cash in Sheffield, decent at G, not so much at Gentings at the moment.

The first cardroom manager had a fantastic cv with experience in several British casinos and Vegas casinos. He moved from the Gala to G and we tried to have a few games there. One night he was the only dealer capable and dealt the majority of our session from 2am to 9am, having started at 8pm. We let him have breaks and it was a fairly fun and relaxed game. He got many compliments from us to senior staff. I had a twenty min conversation about future plans/promotions etc and he was somewhat quiet. I found out from a friend that deals there that he had literally no right to organise any sort of promotion or guarantee, its pathetic. Just some sort of corporate title.

Strangely enough i asked the Gala Teesside cardroom manager what was happening with the casino tournament league there, unfortunately he couldn't tell me until the new General Manager was appointed... At least he can organise some sort of promotion himself though!

[youthnkzR]

G casino opened up in Teesside. Our excitement was similar to yours, but they have 4 nights a week of lol bowl comps and a monthly £100 f/o. They've tried 3 schedules now and still not guaranteed anything. The players have asked several times for various things, we've had people talk to managers, arrange games on fb, all sorts, but they still continue merrily along averaging 20 people for £20 tournaments forever. Ridiculous. Cardroom managers aren't given enough time to do anything and have the pressure of immediate results. They moved the original guy after 6 months of preventing him from doing anything to get the cardroom going. Its such a shame, its such a nice room but won't ever get going imo and i can imagine Sheffield ending up the same.

Sheffield intrigues me, I spy on with interest, might pop down in next three or four weeks for a friday night session. What's cash been like so far?

Do you not get the feeling that the actual CRM in G-Casino's are not actual managers though? I've been to a few Grosevnor's and they seem to not be in charge of their actual card room.

As for cash in Sheffield, decent at G, not so much at Gentings at the moment.

Andy has no power in G Sheffield. Its pretty obvious. I was asking him a few months ago why he didnt sort the schedule out and apparently they have a budget of amounts they can have worth of overlays...etc per month / year (cant remember the exact number but i can remember thinking that it wasnt alot). Also he said he had to come up with new schedules but they had to be approved by some other managed in the casino and if they were against it, it was a no go.

[david3103]

G casino opened up in Teesside. Our excitement was similar to yours, but they have 4 nights a week of lol bowl comps and a monthly £100 f/o. They've tried 3 schedules now and still not guaranteed anything. The players have asked several times for various things, we've had people talk to managers, arrange games on fb, all sorts, but they still continue merrily along averaging 20 people for £20 tournaments forever. Ridiculous. Cardroom managers aren't given enough time to do anything and have the pressure of immediate results. They moved the original guy after 6 months of preventing him from doing anything to get the cardroom going. Its such a shame, its such a nice room but won't ever get going imo and i can imagine Sheffield ending up the same.

Sheffield intrigues me, I spy on with interest, might pop down in next three or four weeks for a friday night session. What's cash been like so far?

Sunday's £15(5k)+£15(10k)  which makes it effectively a £30 made over £1400 last week. Third week in around 4 that it's been north of £1k.
Cash tables are improving too I believe.

Monthly game got best numbers yet this month and should go from strength to strength.

Rumours of a GUKPT seat being played for over the first quarter of 2013 too

[rfgqqabc]

G casino opened up in Teesside. Our excitement was similar to yours, but they have 4 nights a week of lol bowl comps and a monthly £100 f/o. They've tried 3 schedules now and still not guaranteed anything. The players have asked several times for various things, we've had people talk to managers, arrange games on fb, all sorts, but they still continue merrily along averaging 20 people for £20 tournaments forever. Ridiculous. Cardroom managers aren't given enough time to do anything and have the pressure of immediate results. They moved the original guy after 6 months of preventing him from doing anything to get the cardroom going. Its such a shame, its such a nice room but won't ever get going imo and i can imagine Sheffield ending up the same.

Sheffield intrigues me, I spy on with interest, might pop down in next three or four weeks for a friday night session. What's cash been like so far?

Sunday's £15(5k)+£15(10k)  which makes it effectively a £30 made over £1400 last week. Third week in around 4 that it's been north of £1k.
Cash tables are improving too I believe.

Monthly game got best numbers yet this month and should go from strength to strength.

Rumours of a GUKPT seat being played for over the first quarter of 2013 too

Yeah for sure, and I'm sure part of my frustration comes from the G not suiting my needs as a player. Its just my personal opinion that the people in the £20 f/os don't give a lot to the casino in the form of spending power on food/gaming. I'd be very surprised if a pool of 50 £20 rebuy players didn't dominate 150 £20 f/o players.

£100 finally got going after 3-4 months of two day £100 40 player comps lol. So glad they fixed it, not a bad idea but terrible in practise.

[action man]

guys, i first started playing poker in sheffield in 2000 and the players are still the same, most of the tourney fields are made up of businessmen, people who like a gamble. Not discerning poker players who want to play a well structured tournament. Has been like that for 12 years and will continue to be like that. Sheffield didnt adapt during the boom so why should they now when poker is in a recession? If the casino was struggling to meet target profits then maybe they might look at the poker side of things, but in every uk casino poker is merely something the casino offer rather than it being fruitful endeavour for them.

[rfgqqabc]

Do Vegas casino's make money from poker?

[relaedgc]

It's easy enough to criticise, but speaking as someone that stands on the other side of the fence, I can assure you that it's really not as simple as you believe it.

I ask, if guarantees and added monies were a sure fire way to ensure a revenue boost, why isn't everyone doing it?

Do you think, perhaps, that it is because the industry recognises on the whole that it isn't financially viable? Sure, perhaps we're all absolutely clueless but I think you know better than that.

The card room at Luton didn't have a single guaranteed tournament when I took over, and we're at the point where practically everything is guaranteed including our festival main events, so the supervisor can make a difference.

Not going to say it was an easy road, mind. Heartache and tears, more so.

[relaedgc]

Do Vegas casino's make money from poker?

Probably, in the volume that they get poker in.

I would assume that the only really profitable pokler venues are the central London poker rooms that see a lot of cash. Empire, Hippodrome, Victoria etc.

You have to also take in mind that poker is taxed up to 50%, and it's taxed based on takings.

[77dave]

Do Vegas casino's make money from poker?

Probably, in the volume that they get poker in.

I would assume that the only really profitable pokler venues are the central London poker rooms that see a lot of cash. Empire, Hippodrome, Victoria etc.

You have to also take in mind that poker is taxed up to 50%, and it's taxed based on takings.

id love you to think about the 2nd line you have written there George.

[relaedgc]

Confident that I am not far wrong.

I would not be surprised to know that most poker rooms are around a break even point, but you're only going to get a room that makes money in a highly populous region or uncontested business.

I could perhaps expand to encompass a few more poker rooms. Birmingham Star City/Broadway  (not sure which is the thriving room in the Midlands any more), Manchester Bury New Road and central London.

I am sure there a few venues I don't know about that enjoy thriving cash action and small overheads, but I can't name any in this region.

Those, and of course all of the illegal tax dodging venues.

[aeinstein199]

Just seen this on their Facebook page.

Still prefer cash, but it looks like they are trying to out do Genting and Naps with fully dealer dealt, variable guarantees and early bonus chips...Could be tempted for the Monday comp if it gets many runners.

From January 2013.

CASH GAMES
Our Fully dealer dealt cash games are open 7 nights a week from 5pm – 6am.
Blinds are:
50p/50p -Minimum sitdown £10 -maximum sitdown £50
... ... £1/£1 - Minimum sitdown - £20 Maximum sitdown £200
£1/£2 - Minimum sitdown - £50 Maximum sitdown £500

MONDAY (2 Tournaments)

Tournament 1

“The Hot £100”
£100 Buyin and £10 registration fee
Freezeout
7.30pm start/ last entries 8.30pm
Guaranteed £3,300 with 30 players and £5,500 with 50 players
15,000 chips
If a player registers before 7pm they receive and additional 1,500 chips
Fully dealer dealt

Tournament 2

“The XL Deepstack”
£25 Buyin and £3 registration fee
Freezeout
7.30pm start/ last entries 8.30pm
Guaranteed £1,000 with 30 players and £1,500 with 50 players
15,000 chips
If a player registers before 7pm they receive and additional 1,500 chips
Fully dealer dealt

TUESDAY

“Beat the dealer”
£10 Buyin and £3 registration fee
1 optional rebuy or addon
7.30pm start/ last entries 8.30pm
Our dealers play and if you eliminate them you win £20
Guaranteed £400 with 30 players and £800 with 50 players
8000 chips
If a player registers before 7pm they receive and additional 800 chips
Fully dealer dealt

WEDNESDAY

“The XL Deepstack”
£25 Buyin and £3 registration fee
Freezeout
7.30pm start/ last entries 8.30pm
Guaranteed £1,000 with 30 players and £1,500 with 50 players
15,000 chips
If a player registers before 7pm they receive and additional 1,500 chips
Fully dealer dealt

THURSDAY

“The 20-20”
£20 Buyin and £3 registration fee
1 optional rebuy or addon
7.30pm start/ last entries 8.30pm
Guaranteed £1,000 with 30 players and £1,500 with 50 players
10,000 chips
If a player registers before 7pm they receive and additional 1,000 chips
Fully dealer dealt

FRIDAY

“The XL Deepstack”
£15 Buyin and £3 registration fee
Freezeout
7.30pm start/ last entries 8.30pm
Guaranteed £600 with 30 players and £1,000 with 50 players
15,000 chips
If a player registers before 7pm they receive and additional 1,500 chips
Fully dealer dealt

SATURDAY (2 Tournaments)

Tournament 1

POT LIMIT OMAHA TOURNAMENT
£10 Buyin and £3 registration fee
1 optional rebuy or addon
4pm start/ last entries 5pm
Guaranteed £400 with 30 players and £800 with 50 players
10,000 chips
If a player registers before 3.30pm they receive and additional 1,000 chips
Fully dealer dealt

Tournament 2

“The XL Deepstack”
£25 Buyin and £3 registration fee
Freezeout
7.30pm start/ last entries 8.30pm
Guaranteed £1,000 with 30 players and £1,500 with 50 players
15,000 chips
If a player registers before 7pm they receive and additional 1,500 chips
Fully dealer dealt

SUNDAY

“The Roast”
£50 Buyin and £5 registration fee
Freezeout
4pm start/ last entries 5pm
Guaranteed £1,750 with 30 players and £2,750 with 50 players
20,000 chips
If a player registers before 3.30pm they receive and additional 2,000 chips
Fully dealer dealt

0114 2757433 for further details