Cash Games Feedback

[Junior Senior]

Hi Rob, I dont play a lot of cash but did when i have i thought the rake was high but from the details posted in your OP it seems comparable with other venues (certainty the Vic).  I wonder if reducing the rake a little would attract guys from other venues to travel (eg leicester,leeds, brum)... Dont know, but it might. It seems to me you are getting most things right though. I reckon some sort of promo with prizes would be a great way of getting more people playing for sure. Obviously you want to reward the regs but surely this is abut gettin new players to the top floor and that in itself would reward the regs.

Also, can someone explain what buying the button actually means? Otherwise i dont really get why you would allow someone to do it.

Cheers
Greg

[Woodsey]

Hi Rob, I dont play a lot of cash but did when i have i thought the rake was high but from the details posted in your OP it seems comparable with other venues (certainty the Vic).  I wonder if reducing the rake a little would attract guys from other venues to travel (eg leicester,leeds, brum)... Dont know, but it might. It seems to me you are getting most things right though. I reckon some sort of promo with prizes would be a great way of getting more people playing for sure. Obviously you want to reward the regs but surely this is abut gettin new players to the top floor and that in itself would reward the regs.

Also, can someone explain what buying the button actually means? Otherwise i dont really get why you would allow someone to do it.

Cheers
Greg

This......

[George2Loose]

Buying the button. I shall try and explain.

So you walk away from the table and come back and you're in the small blind position. Rather than waiting one hand you post both the small and big blind. The small is dead and you assume the big blind position and play the hand as normal as the big blind.

Next hand instead of the button passing you and you posting 3 dead you keep the button and don't post anything (because you did last hand) hence buying the button.

[gouty]

My views as a 4/5 weekends a year visitor.

Do allow buying of button.

Rabbit hunting is just totally classless and should be left to the Welsh who seem to love it. If a player wants to see turn/ river let em pay for it.

Running it twice only in your biggest game. It is a concept that many recreational players don't understand and should never be standard.

My only gripe about my last visit was getting any booze at the tables. Serious lack of decent waitresses on the Sunday of the 500k event. All in all we always seem to enjoy the cash games up there. 2/2 PLO is decent game.

[Derbylad]

1. Rake V Session Fees AND Charge (DTD rake only)
Rake on everything below 2/5 and charge above. Similar to the Vic's model here.

2. Levels of games on offer (we spread 50p-£1 +)
Love the fact the 50-1 is now the beginner game, and a nice addition at the 1-1 sizing.
The 1-2 no max is a bit daunting to have continued progression for players though, i'd much rather see a 100-450 or thereabouts...
with a half the biggest stack rebuy allowing players to still realistically get out of holes etc...

3. Straddles allowed/ limited (we dont allow straddles on 50-£1)
Personally i'm a fan of straddles, if people want to put more dead money in the pot, i'm not one to be a fun sponge and not let the fish be fish

4. Min/Max buy-ins at start of game (varies on game)
Keep the same, no issues here IMO

5. Max buy in when game has been running (doesnt change at DTD)
Half the biggest stack is pretty much standard in most UK venues now. Only relevant on capped games though so thoughts on 1-2 buyins need to be considered.
Potentially keep the 50-1 as standard 100 too.... if the aims a beginners game

6. Buy the button (not allowed in DTD)
Should be allowed, good for all parties imo.

7. Run it twice (only allowed in uncapped games)
I think there's certain situations, especially when a pot has escalated in the larger games that this should definitely be allowed.
Particularly in PLO where the variance is through the roof.

8. Rabitt hunting (not allowed I think, erm...)
This just slows the games down, fun for the occasional royal flush draws etc...

9. Spectators in the cash game area
No one sat behind, i despise this in cash games, but i'm definitely one for a quick catch up chat to see how people are getting on.

10. Opening/Closing times for kicking out cash game players
I'm used to the era of 4am and 5am at weekends here, unsure why that's changed.

11. Complementary - food and drink DTD does free soft and hot drinks/ some food compted on £2-£5 + games)
Spot on IMO, i'm now used to being robbed of £1 at the vic everytime when i'd much rather just tip the waitress.

12. Rake Races, Bad beat jackpots (weve not tried them)
Bad Beat jackpots are a win win IMO. It's always shared throughout the club anyway so you keep the regs happy, it creates more hype to get novices and beginners playing more of the cash games. And it gets some guy calling you down when you have the absolute nuts in hope he 1 outers a bad beat jackpot? whats not to like.

13. Barring Team Eureaka / Winning players  
After all the recent drama in some threads, it's still one of the funniest atmospheres to play in, and you won't find decent banter at many other venues.

14. Rake on split pots (we rake)
Despise this.



Side note: whats the current rule on languages? in play / out of play etc...? and how is it being enforced if it persists? hand / round bans etc...?

[Sulphur man]

1. Rake V Session Fees AND Charge (DTD rake only)
Rake on everything below 2/5 and charge above. Similar to the Vic's model here.

2. Levels of games on offer (we spread 50p-£1 +)
Love the fact the 50-1 is now the beginner game, and a nice addition at the 1-1 sizing.
The 1-2 no max is a bit daunting to have continued progression for players though, i'd much rather see a 100-450 or thereabouts...
with a half the biggest stack rebuy allowing players to still realistically get out of holes etc...

3. Straddles allowed/ limited (we dont allow straddles on 50-£1)
Personally i'm a fan of straddles, if people want to put more dead money in the pot, i'm not one to be a fun sponge and not let the fish be fish

4. Min/Max buy-ins at start of game (varies on game)
Keep the same, no issues here IMO

5. Max buy in when game has been running (doesnt change at DTD)
Half the biggest stack is pretty much standard in most UK venues now. Only relevant on capped games though so thoughts on 1-2 buyins need to be considered.
Potentially keep the 50-1 as standard 100 too.... if the aims a beginners game

6. Buy the button (not allowed in DTD)
Should be allowed, good for all parties imo.

7. Run it twice (only allowed in uncapped games)
I think there's certain situations, especially when a pot has escalated in the larger games that this should definitely be allowed.
Particularly in PLO where the variance is through the roof.

8. Rabitt hunting (not allowed I think, erm...)
This just slows the games down, fun for the occasional royal flush draws etc...

9. Spectators in the cash game area
No one sat behind, i despise this in cash games, but i'm definitely one for a quick catch up chat to see how people are getting on.

10. Opening/Closing times for kicking out cash game players
I'm used to the era of 4am and 5am at weekends here, unsure why that's changed.

11. Complementary - food and drink DTD does free soft and hot drinks/ some food compted on £2-£5 + games)
Spot on IMO, i'm now used to being robbed of £1 at the vic everytime when i'd much rather just tip the waitress.

12. Rake Races, Bad beat jackpots (weve not tried them)
Bad Beat jackpots are a win win IMO. It's always shared throughout the club anyway so you keep the regs happy, it creates more hype to get novices and beginners playing more of the cash games. And it gets some guy calling you down when you have the absolute nuts in hope he 1 outers a bad beat jackpot? whats not to like.

13. Barring Team Eureaka / Winning players  
After all the recent drama in some threads, it's still one of the funniest atmospheres to play in, and you won't find decent banter at many other venues.

14. Rake on split pots (we rake)
Despise this.



Side note: whats the current rule on languages? in play / out of play etc...? and how is it being enforced if it persists? hand / round bans etc...?

Great post

[Derbylad]

One more thinking aloud comment, something that was done at the vic in the past month....
At midnight a raffle was awarded on all cash tables still running, there was a highest card to determine who was the candidate on the table to potentially win a prize, this was usually money to spend in the restaurant etc... but could also be a free bet in the casino or some other little prizes. The main edge though was that the table was also nominated and the winning table was rake free for an hour. This kept people playing later and also gives a tiny incentive back to the players without doing any major changes to the cash game structure.

I'm not saying use this exact example, but you could potentially alter the idea to fit DTD's eco.

[George2Loose]

Caesars do something similar where u get raffle tickets every hand u win and then they draw two 100$ winners at 6pm and midnight. Spouse the problem u might have there is a huge exodus at midnight.

[Derbylad]

Like i say, alter to fit the eco. It's only really viable if there are enough tables already running.

[muckthenuts]

The only thing i think is really important is reasonable max sit downs on tables. The fish can't go broke too quickly. Spread varying limits, but don't let the games bigger than they are or it won't be sustainable.

[SuuPRlim]

Gonna be controversial now but anyone who complains about raking split pots or rabbit hunting tilts the life out of me. Rabbit hunting takes like less than 20seconds and gives someone some satisfaction, why not just let them do it.

Rob has to pay bills, why does he care if a pot is split or not for rake? It's exactly the same as one of you winning the pot, how does no-one realise this?

Also PLO variance is exactly the same as NLHE variance, run it twice doesn't apply more profitably to either game.

[Cf]

Gonna be controversial now but anyone who complains about raking split pots or rabbit hunting tilts the life out of me. Rabbit hunting takes like less than 20seconds and gives someone some satisfaction, why not just let them do it.

Rob has to pay bills, why does he care if a pot is split or not for rake? It's exactly the same as one of you winning the pot, how does no-one realise this?

I don't understand why a casino wouldn't rake a split pot.

It makes no difference to the casino who is receiving the chips. They should rake anyway.

[SuuPRlim]

Gonna be controversial now but anyone who complains about raking split pots or rabbit hunting tilts the life out of me. Rabbit hunting takes like less than 20seconds and gives someone some satisfaction, why not just let them do it.

Rob has to pay bills, why does he care if a pot is split or not for rake? It's exactly the same as one of you winning the pot, how does no-one realise this?

I don't understand why a casino wouldn't rake a split pot.

It makes no difference to the casino who is receiving the chips. They should rake anyway.

agreed. It also makes very, very little difference to the player.

[Jrvs]

I'm also an infrequent visitor to DTD, but when I do I'm usually coming with the main focus on playing cash, so just wanted to agree with some of the points people have made here and also make a few of my own.

One of the big things that personally has a large influence on me is the opening hours, I was used to the late 4:30, 5:30 openings, and was very surprised when this changed to around 3am.

Me and a couple of friends usually travel up for a weekend so when we do we really want to get as much poker in as possible, obviously when the tournaments are running and just because of the way cash games run, it isn't really possible very often to get games going early afternoon, so we usually want to be able to play as late as possible instead to get the most out of our trip, the early closes really don't cater for this, and the last couple of times I've been at the club and the games have finished at 3ish, this has always confused me because almost everyone on my table had wanted to carry on.  I'd guess the majority of weekend visitors usually have travelled a bit further than weekday visitors and have probably paid for a hotel, travel etc so I'd expect there would be quite a decent section of weekend customers who would also want and be incentivised by later openings.

Suggestion is open later on weekends? As I can understand its probably not financially viable to be open late every weeknight with the current numbers anyway.

On the note of straddling, I think it should definitely be allowed on every game, including 0.5/1. I remember playing 0.5/1 before and not being allowed to straddle and it being explained to the table that it was only at 1/2 and above. I remember a player at my table commenting at the time it now felt like this 0.5/1 game was insignificant compared to the other games going and he wanted to move to 1/2 just so he could play in a game that 'looked respected and taken seriously'.

I think there should be one rule for all if I'm honest. A 0.5/1 player should be treated the same as a 1/2 or 2/5 player, they are just as important, if not more.

Also whilst on this point, I think the same should apply for 'running it twice' I think this should be allowed on all games, and all quirky sorta stuff like this should be allowed, if a player has seen this happen on TV they probably want to do it as well, even if they don't understand why, it's all probably added excitement and fun to the players and offers something different to games elsewhere.

I think there should definitely be a cap on the 1/2 or at least a choice. I thought last time I visited new limits had been introduced and there was now both capped and uncapped 1/2, when I got there ready to play and the game was starting it quickly got changed to an uncapped from a capped one at the request of someone, without really consulting the rest of the players taking their seats, this made me feel uncomfortable straight away as some players started buying in what I thought to be redic deep to start a game.

Pretty sure I had some more stuff to add but I've just realised the time! Not sure if this is of any use or if I've just rambled on haha...

[Derbylad]

Gonna be controversial now but anyone who complains about raking split pots or rabbit hunting tilts the life out of me. Rabbit hunting takes like less than 20seconds and gives someone some satisfaction, why not just let them do it.

Rob has to pay bills, why does he care if a pot is split or not for rake? It's exactly the same as one of you winning the pot, how does no-one realise this?

Also PLO variance is exactly the same as NLHE variance, run it twice doesn't apply more profitably to either game.

I'm not saying never rabbit hunt, it's fun when the hand had some kind of entertainment value, but when x,y,z, wants to see if they'd have actually hit there flush on the river if they'd called x,y,z it gets tedious and would slow the games down, especially if this were actually made into a consolidated rule.

And running it twice normally isn't focused on profitability, it's more on reducing variance for both parties in coin flip chances and larger pots?
I don't see why if all parties agree there shouldn't be a reason for someone to potentially not be felted by a pot that's been escalated in a 50/50 chance.

Theres already been the occasion of this at DTD...