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Author Topic: Racing Thread  (Read 1016411 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #870 on: January 22, 2014, 08:31:14 PM »

I think this is a good read

http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/article.php?id=3895&cid=5


not sure if you all agree with this

sean boyce ‏@boyciesbetting 3m

(1/2) Extraordinary patience & discipline behind today's coup but...Improving a proven class 6 or 7 horse by 28lbs is great training...

sean boyce ‏@boyciesbetting 3m

Starting with proven 80, 90, 100+ rated flat horses and getting them dropped into class 6/7. That's something rather different...imho.
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« Reply #871 on: January 22, 2014, 08:35:20 PM »

Curley is not taking money from bookmakers he's taking it from other punters.

All it will mean is it is even more difficult to get bets on (if that's possible) at early prices and accounts will be even more restricted.

Barney Curley is not a punters hero, he's a parasite.
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« Reply #872 on: January 22, 2014, 08:48:21 PM »

Not a big view on Curley one way or the other but love this quote from him

 “It's not for the money, it's for the buzz. Beat the system, you know, beat those bookmakers, those smart-arses. You go into a betting shop and see them robbing these poor fellows, with these gaming machines. They're as addictive as crack cocaine. You see them coming back to the counter with their credit cards, for another tenner. Of course the great thing about those machines is that number nine won't go to even money and win five lengths."
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« Reply #873 on: January 22, 2014, 08:59:11 PM »

He's just an exaggerated version of what trainers have done in dogs and horses for as long as there has been racing.

As a punter, you have to make the false assumption every horse and every jockey is primed and trying.

I would have more of an issue if other jockeys/trainers in the races were in on it. It doesn't help the image of the sport, though, and that's the biggest thing for me, I suppose.
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« Reply #874 on: January 22, 2014, 09:03:49 PM »

I think if most of us as gamblers were in a similar position we would attempt the same. Especially the Pro's amongst us, organised, methodical, spotting weaknesses etc!

I suspect the difference is many may not have his patience/money to engineer such a tickle.

Certainly don't see him as a parasite. Pretty sure if anyone found an angle, they wouldn't think too much about the rest of the punting public either!

We are all here to win money aren't we??
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« Reply #875 on: January 22, 2014, 09:10:47 PM »

Yes, I have to disagree with you as well Keith, unless of course you have had some personal interaction with him that merits the tag. 

He is doing no different than what we do when we act on information we receive - it is just exaggerated, meticulously planned and delivered with far more funds available to keep the horses off the course and plan the coup.  You can argue every time were involved in a gamble with information from a stable it has exactly the same impact  on those who don't have the information.  Thats the nature of the handicap system which "allows" such things in the way man and horse work together.

If I had the skill, inclination and funds I would do exactly the same.
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« Reply #876 on: January 22, 2014, 09:12:17 PM »

I think if most of us as gamblers were in a similar position we would attempt the same. Especially the Pro's amongst us, organised, methodical, spotting weaknesses etc!

I suspect the difference is many may not have his patience/money to engineer such a tickle.

Certainly don't see him as a parasite. Pretty sure if anyone found an angle, they wouldn't think too much about the rest of the punting public either!

We are all here to win money aren't we??

Well put
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« Reply #877 on: January 22, 2014, 11:44:25 PM »

Doesn't this scheme involve quite a lot of non-trying to get your handicap mark down? That's why its naughty, imo.
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« Reply #878 on: January 22, 2014, 11:53:24 PM »

Doesn't this scheme involve quite a lot of non-trying to get your handicap mark down? That's why its naughty, imo.

Seems like it to me, Horses that don't perform will go down the handicap, that in reality can be engineered and the normal ice cream punter is doing his or her money along the way. 
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« Reply #879 on: January 23, 2014, 12:04:37 AM »

If i was annoyed at today i would be more inclined to ask the handicapper questions without whom this could not have happened (it could but not as confidently)

John Porter Stakes 2012

Eye of the Tiger beaten "a distance" dropped 11lb, artic cosmos beaten a distance +83 lengths not dropped a 1lb

Newmarket handicap 6/5/12

EOTT beaten 41 lengths dropped 8lbs Charles Camoin beaten 41.5 lengths dropped 3lbs





spot the tiger!
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« Reply #880 on: January 23, 2014, 04:48:17 AM »

Doesn't this scheme involve quite a lot of non-trying to get your handicap mark down? That's why its naughty, imo.


In a perfect world, yes, but I could probably find you upwards of 20 rides a day where similar happens but not so obviously.

At least with Barney horses, if you know your racing, you know it's happening.

Is that fair, maybe not, but like in any game or industry you pay to learn. I don't just go bundling into the FOREX market and punt stuff, and then moan when I make a loss, when regular traders can see all the signs, and it's no different with Curley stuff.

At the end of the day it's 4 races on one day of the year on a horrible Wednesday January afternoon. Unless I'm wrong, there will be plenty more racing this year, and I quite enjoyed the whole episode.
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« Reply #881 on: January 23, 2014, 07:11:49 AM »



I did laugh at this piece in The Telegraph.......




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/10590835/Barney-Curley-linked-to-gamble-that-hits-bookmakers-for-millions.html


Specifically, this line......



Ladbrokes were another firm said to have minimised their exposure after eagle-eyed traders noticed the significance of early moves in the day.
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« Reply #882 on: January 23, 2014, 10:00:16 AM »

When I was about 10 or 11 my dad pointed out BC to me in the paddock at Lingfield Park. I went up and asked him to sign my race card and asked him if he had a winner for me. I thought that he wouldn't steer a ten year old wrong with his pocket money. He gave me a horse which I then found out was 8/13 in a six horse race. I had £65 of the £80 I had in my pocket on it. It finished sixth.

Keith might have a point.
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« Reply #883 on: January 23, 2014, 11:32:54 AM »

V surprised that some of our more respected members think Mr Curley is on his own, or a mnority here.

Only last week whilst watching a horse from a particular stable with a friend, the conversation with owners son was

son "should I back this we must have a good chance of reversing the form with x, with the experience we gained last time etc"

trainer "no, dont back him today etc"

son "I thought you said we would bet x next time out, we are the better horse. I brought my punting boots?"

trainer "oh we are, we just wont today"


And for all the world I could never have told you that horse wasn't trying.

It goes on all the time chaps, and naive to think otherwise, right or wrong.
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« Reply #884 on: January 23, 2014, 12:24:45 PM »

V surprised that some of our more respected members think Mr Curley is on his own, or a mnority here.

Only last week whilst watching a horse from a particular stable with a friend, the conversation with owners son was

son "should I back this we must have a good chance of reversing the form with x, with the experience we gained last time etc"

trainer "no, dont back him today etc"

son "I thought you said we would bet x next time out, we are the better horse. I brought my punting boots?"

trainer "oh we are, we just wont today"


And for all the world I could never have told you that horse wasn't trying.

It goes on all the time chaps, and naive to think otherwise, right or wrong.

I'm sure we all know this goes on. In fact, with the way handicaps are, you'd be daft to think it didn't given the big incentives for cheating. But it shouldn't go on, and people who are caught doing it should be warned off. Curley has been pretty blatant. Why should he be allowed to take part in racing any more?

I think the BHA lost a lot of heart for tackling it when they couldn't get Fallon prosecuted.

It's not just 4 races on a wet Wednesday- the real crime is all the races that these horses didn't try in to set the coup up. That's where the fraud is.
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