Markups

[aaron1867]

Thread makes me laugh.

[rfgqqabc]

I think Mr. Keys is right. The only exception should be to report discrepancies that weren't handled well and haven't been disclosed or something of that ilk. A thread that doesn't sell out is enough of a message that the stake/markup/overall environment were handled incorrectly. Sometimes the capital just isn't there a la A Rupert Elder EPT or the player isn't well known or thought highly enough to justify the markup. It is obviously possible a person could look extremely good value at a price to one person and terrible to another because of their knowledge. Unless someone is pulling the wool over someone's eyes then let the market decide.

If blonde charges the community will miss out on several investment opportunities on a whole, but I'm sure some financial arrangement would be achievable. 1-10% of markup would add up over the year but would lead to buyers getting screwed as markups would just increase. I think a tipping culture following big scores could work.

@what Beany just posted, markups are subjective though, and I'll be surprised to know if you or anyone could correctly rate every investment opportunity. I really haven't seen that many  awful proposals but definitely some I wouldn't invest in with infinite capital, but they are always my opinions. Also, what happens when I see someone sell incorrectly? Do i tell them they have hideously undervalued themselves? Or do i rub my hands and just jump in? Its a sellers market.

def agree with first two paragraphs, though think p1 is hopeful in that alot of people just have wool over their eyes anyway themselves and seem to have no clue, and yet justify with the old no one will ever truly know the rois phrase.


re p3 ,even if estimates don't have to be exact, they can at least be on the fair side to the stakees rather than trying to eek out as much as possible. surely it's clearly an awful investment if you wouldn't invest with infinite capital.

if someone sells themself lower than their true perceived value then they will sell out quickly and in larger chunks. similarly if they don't sell out they've clearly priced it wrong.


let's be V honest, a handful of us provide good value stakes knowingly, others provide borderline value knowingly and a whole bunch have no real idea and just follow the trends.

think the concept of marketplaces reaching equilibrium etc works better on 2+2 where it's all alot more commercial rather than such an interlinked initially friendly community such as blonde.

I've always tried to make sure I'm in group one of the bold, because I sell mostly to friends. The problem I have with someone saying "Well he is wrong, thats a poor price" is the information to correctly assess the abilities of the player are rarely out there because of the nature of MTTs. It is too hard to police and I feel like it will ultimately come down to a popularity contest.

Also just because I think it is a -ev investment doesn't mean it actually is. For example, I thought I'd be good value in the 2.1k O8 Scoops. I spoke to people about the fields last year,  looked at final tables, other investors and decided to play. After playing I thought the field was a joke, but that doesn't mean Keys might think it is laughable I'm in a 2.1k scoop, and think it is a horrible investment. Next year I could have binked and want to sell 40 @ 1.15 but the forum decides that is unfair despite having absolutely no information at all. How can anyone fairly decide whether 1.15 is fair there, or whether 1.5 is fair for someone in the main. Ultimately, the only fair policing way is to let the market decide. Everyone has an extremely good information source for what is good value because of what other investors post. We can't be a nanny state, the variables just vary too much.

[Boba Fett]

Why would any % given to blonde automatically come from the seller only?

[TightEnd]

also people DO give back to Blonde.

Alex doing commentary etc.

what has that got to do with blonde?

[titaniumbean]

we are in agreement rfqq w/e the feck your username is!

[titaniumbean]

also people DO give back to Blonde.

Alex doing commentary etc.

what has that got to do with blonde?

give him a break, first post in 5 years no spelling mistake (unless ofcourse he was randomly off topic rolling his head on keyboard and got lucky with those actual words that make sense).

[pleno1]

also people DO give back to Blonde.

Alex doing commentary etc.

what has that got to do with blonde?

I assume Blodne and DTD to just be one entity, especially due to the way the rail is. I'm not saying its a bad thing.

typo for titty.

[Skippy]

It always amazes me that people are quite happy to let punters lose money by making -EV decisions at the poker table, or at the roulette wheel, but as soon as they make -EV decisions in buying stakes people are outraged- how could this be allowed to happen? Something must be done!

In my opinion, it's OK to flame other peoples staking proposals a bit (lightly toast them maybe?) but at the end of the day I don't see why people get their knickers in a twist when punter A stakes punter B at 1.3 when 0.5 is a fair price. That's what the gambling industry is built on, including professional gamblers.

[TightEnd]

also people DO give back to Blonde.

Alex doing commentary etc.

what has that got to do with blonde?

I assume Blodne and DTD to just be one entity, especially due to the way the rail is. I'm not saying its a bad thing.

typo for titty.

well clearly not. Have you looked at the rail recently?

[Doobs]

also people DO give back to Blonde.

Alex doing commentary etc.

what has that got to do with blonde?

I assume Blodne and DTD to just be one entity, especially due to the way the rail is. I'm not saying its a bad thing.

typo for titty.

well clearly not. Have you looked at the rail recently?

Confused, DTD threads dropped from the top, but ads in the sig and on the side of the page.  Hope everything is good still.

[TightEnd]

Everything is fine. The ispt threads were unstickied after the event. I was, clumsily, trying to make the point that there is much more to the rail than DTD threads. I know Patrick thinks the rail is weaker than it should be currently, but its not for want of,trying on my behalf

[pleno1]

also people DO give back to Blonde.

Alex doing commentary etc.

what has that got to do with blonde?

I assume Blodne and DTD to just be one entity, especially due to the way the rail is. I'm not saying its a bad thing.

typo for titty.

well clearly not. Have you looked at the rail recently?

Honestly? No. I stopped Looking when there was 5-10 dtd threads st the top. I totally understand though that is the heart.. The bread and butter of the forum. If I was dtd sponsors a site that's exactly what I would do too.

I jus think blOnde and dtd are seen as the same. Isn't there a forum linked on dtd which sends you to blonde? The owners of the forum, or at least the most popular, active and managing admins Ktu dtd signature etc it just feels very all together.

Again don't see this as a bad thing. Everybody says how amazing dtd is so its only going to be positives.

I would say blonde and dtd are and should be inseparable for the foreseeable future anyway so probaby he reason why I just tag you together in the same bracket.

[GreekStein]

Markups are a difficult one because:

- All of us poker players believe we are better than we are. Therefore people will charge higher markups than they are worth.

- The community spirit of blonde means people will buy/invest/help out other long time posters at these higher markups.

- A bad precedent has been set and it's made it very much a sellers market. Sellers can go onto the silly side of markups because they will likely sell out.

- Too many people pussyfoot around in these threads for not wanting to upset someone and don't say what they think when it's appropriate to do so.


The discussions of high markups and blonde's biggest buyers like Tikay voting with their feet is a good thing to bring back the market as it should be.

[pleno1]

Here here!

Jus checked te rail and looks awesome Tighty!

Let's have a well.

[TightEnd]

Here here!

Jus checked te rail and looks awesome Tighty!

Let's have a well.

a) there will be stickied DTD threads..it went a bit nuts with the ISPT I know, but I will try and strike the right balance. DTD don't want 10 stickied threads at the top either.

b) I'm constantly trying to keep the rail fresh with new content. the more people that do that, the better

c) Wells. Yes. Been trying to pin down Sam Grafton for one for ages, for example. Probably post Vegas I think

d) blonde and DTD are close. Rob often gives opinions to me about blonde! His post in here is something I have heard from him face to face but it does not imply that blonde is about to introduce charges etc etc. We do though, as mods, admins and with any interested party talk it all through constantly


I broadly agree with Cos' post above. We can all see the staking market on here is frothy. Equally we can all see that there are some early steps towards that returning to some sort of equiibrium as volume buyers are currently choosing to absent themselves from expressing interest at the prices being asked. Logically supply of capital will move to meet demand for capital at a lower equiibrium price, and discussions such as this help speed that up.

I'm waffling again.

cliffs. talk to improve the staking knowledge base is good