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Author Topic: Markups  (Read 22322 times)
PeteL
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« on: June 06, 2013, 02:29:07 PM »

Maybe this has been said before but as I have the public eye at the moment thought i would say it again. I often view this board more for curiosity than any other reason. It always strikes me that markup's are too high and people over estimate their skill edge or are offering people deals that are too close to their ROI's. I think if you are asking for investment it means you are generally too short of money or playing a tournament which you are not rolled for (probably for a reason) so therefore you need help from investors. They should be rewarded for this and at the very least for example if your true ROI in a tournament is 50% i think the mark up should be maximum 1.25 to split the profit with the investor. This takes into account poker players being honest with themselves about how good they are which is going to be difficult as everyone tend to think they are better than they are (Not always a bad thing). Anyway rant over just bare in mind if people keep getting bad deals they wont invest in the future and where will you be then.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2013, 02:33:18 PM »

Rest
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2013, 02:45:49 PM »

where's your opr links met
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robyong
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2013, 02:51:55 PM »

Few suggestions

I would like to see TK/Flushy/Tighty add a new rule to staking on here - ie stakers give a % their mark up to Blondepoker for advertising their services, or Blondepoker get a % in the player.

I also think stakers should publish their returns to investors over x period - maybe last 12 months, players showing -VE shouldn't be charging mark ups

Mark ups should reflect experience and success at the level staking is being offered Eg Players who have not cashed in an ept shouldn't be charging mark ups for an EPT

Cheers rob



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celtic
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2013, 02:52:36 PM »

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=58457.0
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 03:18:15 PM »

Few suggestions

I would like to see TK/Flushy/Tighty add a new rule to staking on here - ie stakers give a % their mark up to Blondepoker for advertising their services, or Blondepoker get a % in the player.

I also think stakers should publish their returns to investors over x period - maybe last 12 months, players showing -VE shouldn't be charging mark ups

Mark ups should reflect experience and success at the level staking is being offered Eg Players who have not cashed in an ept shouldn't be charging mark ups for an EPT

Cheers rob



charging a % for blonde in whatever way would just lead to recreational people being punished and those looking to eek out ev moving stakes away from the forum and just keeping their personal contacts with people here.

12 months is nothing in poker, especially rofl live comps, just using recent results is a classicly live player results orientated method. It's very hard to not use examples, imagine player a who just open shoves blind, and player b who works endlessly on his game. A wins some allins in the last 12 months therefore has a profit, player b keeps getting rimmed, A is now valid for markup whilst B isn't even though by any fair definition no one should be paying markup for A whilst B figures to be a good +Ev investment.


again just because you haven't cashed an ept before doesn't mean you aren't better than the field, similarly just because you could afford to play some epts doesn't mean anything with regards to your skill level or likely roi.




I deffo think people need to be more steeley faced and take criticism/people pointing out that they don't think they are value at a certain price etc. rather than this muppety the markets will look after it, we/it are the market and therefore it's up to us to point this rubbish out.


so many people seem to not factor in their personal circumstances for the stake they are selling, a player who is selling 10-20% for sweats in the main but can play regardless can imo sell at a much higher rate compared to someone who HAS to sell 70% to play and is ontop of selling such a large amount adding a markup to utterly reduce their own personal outlay. they are being facilitated to play the event by the help from the stakers, tis utter shite to just say well i'm deffo really good so im charging the world and then go oh btw well it's not possible to ever get a longrun so i'll deffo overestimate my roi just to eek out as much money as possible because ldo i'm most likely not going to cash.
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pleno1
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 03:25:30 PM »

Few suggestions

I would like to see TK/Flushy/Tighty add a new rule to staking on here - ie stakers give a % their mark up to Blondepoker for advertising their services, or Blondepoker get a % in the player.

I also think stakers should publish their returns to investors over x period - maybe last 12 months, players showing -VE shouldn't be charging mark ups

Mark ups should reflect experience and success at the level staking is being offered Eg Players who have not cashed in an ept shouldn't be charging mark ups for an EPT

Cheers rob





There's just so many flaws to this though.

Let's have player x and player y.

Player y is a live cash game player playi in London getting the lot. He sometimes plays online but just on Sunday's in very high variance fields and is break even over a non significant sample. He plays online and beats mid stakes pretty comfortably.

He has sold for 5 tournaments and has a -17% roi in those tournaments.

He post quite a bit on blonde mainly in PHA.

Player x is a live tournament player who has cashed 1/17 tournaments but the one he did cash he bunked for 120k. He doesn't play online because he think it is rigged and posts on the forum mainly in tikays blog.

Why should player x be allowed to charge a mark up and player y not.

Also what if I hae sold for 8 tournaments at dtd or for small stakes online, this now allows me to charge 1.5 in the main event.

The market decides itself fairly due to blonde contribution and past performance look at Mitch, Alex and Liam's threads for balance here.

The point about stakees having to pay blonde a fee or percentage seems ridiculous too. Is t a privilege to be a member of blonde? How does t work the other way? Per 100 pages of blog traffic do we get a percentage or a sun of money from blonde too?

The reason blonde works is because it's a community te community gets together and helps out, thy pay for Tighty to play a tournament, thy wear blonde bages in love tournaments when provided ad they try their very best to give blonde partners as much exposure and help out as much as possible.


The op is absolutely correct IMO, the markups are getting v large and if your true value is 1.5 then you should sell at 1.2 but the people selling at 1.5 think they are vale at 2.0 probably.

One thing that I think is important is that anybody who sells for a tournament puts up 30% of the money hems elves. So if the ornament is 10k they put up at least 3k if the tournament is 330 they put up at least 100 etc etc

If somebody was selling in an Ept without a markup then there I probably a reason why. There is a tonne of value and underselling yourself is not going to be shrewd.

Also like the points in the other threads about to referring to buy in those who buy in others rather than just sell.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
pleno1
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 03:27:24 PM »

Would also like the 'buy back' clause to be distinct but it's a free market to sell whatever you like so just choose not to buy into those packages instead.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
pleno1
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 03:37:56 PM »

And rob just to put this into context. Keys who hasbt won 1m in 14 months would have to sell at 1.0 whilst rasta would be able to sell at whatever he like, probaby over 2.0 if we have I just perky look at short term results (the last 20 tournaments basically)

If we ran this for online (last 20 tournaments) imagine how stupid that would seem?

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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 03:48:51 PM »

Few suggestions

I would like to see TK/Flushy/Tighty add a new rule to staking on here - ie stakers give a % their mark up to Blondepoker for advertising their services, or Blondepoker get a % in the player.

I also think stakers should publish their returns to investors over x period - maybe last 12 months, players showing -VE shouldn't be charging mark ups

Mark ups should reflect experience and success at the level staking is being offered Eg Players who have not cashed in an ept shouldn't be charging mark ups for an EPT

Cheers rob






Player x is a live tournament player who has cashed 1/17 tournaments but the one he did cash he bunked for 120k. He doesn't play online because he think it is rigged and posts on the forum mainly in tikays blog.



Bit harsh to use Alex as an example imo
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2013, 03:49:57 PM »

rofl woooomera
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outragous76
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2013, 03:54:28 PM »

yeah, giving to blonde through mark up just becomes a tax and will just be added to any mark up desired, especially as it is usually an arbitrary figure anyway
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 04:03:31 PM »

Pete, you just won 375k mate, what are you doing even logged into blonde!
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kinboshi
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 04:31:28 PM »

Few suggestions

I would like to see TK/Flushy/Tighty add a new rule to staking on here - ie stakers give a % their mark up to Blondepoker for advertising their services, or Blondepoker get a % in the player.

I also think stakers should publish their returns to investors over x period - maybe last 12 months, players showing -VE shouldn't be charging mark ups

Mark ups should reflect experience and success at the level staking is being offered Eg Players who have not cashed in an ept shouldn't be charging mark ups for an EPT

Cheers rob






Player x is a live tournament player who has cashed 1/17 tournaments but the one he did cash he bunked for 120k. He doesn't play online because he think it is rigged and posts on the forum mainly in tikays blog.



Bit harsh to use Alex as an example imo

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Tal
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2013, 06:00:27 PM »

Pete, you just won 375k mate, what are you doing even logged into blonde!



What that man said
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