Markups

[TightEnd]

just to give one example

"blondepoker: the home of staking at spot"

was one concept pushed to me hard, by someone with a big interest in blonde doing well. ie no mark ups, provide something very different in the staking marketplace....

It is a direction we could go in, the opposite of a free market.


So far, blonde has chosen to provide the boards, but keep our involvement at arms length. We don't charge fees, we don't get involved in disputes and we haven't to date tinkered with any different concepts

Becomes a very different animal if blonde is less arms length and takes it down more commercial avenues. Not least in our potential liability if thin gs go wrong......

[EvilPie]

just to give one example

"blondepoker: the home of staking at spot"

was one concept pushed to me hard, by someone with a big interest in blonde doing well. ie no mark ups, provide something very different in the staking marketplace....

It would certainly be very different.

Nobody would use it.

[pleno1]

I potentially would even be open or that of I want to become a big buyer again as the money I lose from sell at 1.0 is made up by the amount of packages I would buy at spot.

What does flushy think about this as an active 1.3+er?

1.0 for mod people on blonde WOULD be a good thing, tokay, woodsey, titty, myself, honey badger  a whoever likes to punt mainly because of the sweat and community run good.

If there was a general acceptance that everybody sells at 1.0 and most people who sell buy often too then cool Lego.

In my circle of friends we never sell at markup to each other and we never will either. We sell at a similar frequency and we buy at a similar frequency.

Lego.

[pleno1]

Who does the 1.0 rule not work for?

1. Those who don't buy mug
2. Those who believe they are of superior ability.

As Greeky said we all think we are better than we are so 2 is v questionable anyway.

3. Those who want to buy in good players who now try to sell on Facebook/twitter.

[pleno1]

if it means there is 5 threads instead of 13 for Vegas thats not necessairly a bad thing, it stabilizes the economy and stops a huge chunk being taken out of it, whilst those who will sell and buy will generally be motivated to because of the lower variance of buying and selling at 1.0 so if a few people who come 1-2 times a year and sell huge high vaiance packages dont sell its not necessarily a really bad thing for the market.

[rfgqqabc]

if it means there is 5 threads instead of 13 for Vegas thats not necessairly a bad thing, it stabilizes the economy and stops a huge chunk being taken out of it, whilst those who will sell and buy will generally be motivated to because of the lower variance of buying and selling at 1.0 so if a few people who come 1-2 times a year and sell huge high vaiance packages dont sell its not necessarily a really bad thing for the market.

Some people will only buy and never sell. How isn't this the same as the current situation? What about the people who never play or play recreationally and have no need to sell?

Its rare for people to sell at spot because most would rather not play or take all their own action. And noone will admit they can't afford to take all their own action because who the f is rolled for 5-10ks and who wants their finances in the open.

[pleno1]

but people who only buy shouldn't really be punished right?

"how dare you never take money form the staking economy and help people play in events they are under-rolled for"

[pleno1]

if it means there is 5 threads instead of 13 for Vegas thats not necessairly a bad thing, it stabilizes the economy and stops a huge chunk being taken out of it, whilst those who will sell and buy will generally be motivated to because of the lower variance of buying and selling at 1.0 so if a few people who come 1-2 times a year and sell huge high vaiance packages dont sell its not necessarily a really bad thing for the market.

Its rare for people to sell at spot because most would rather not play or take all their own action. And noone will admit they can't afford to take all their own action because who the f is rolled for 5-10ks and who wants their finances in the open.

i dont think in 95% of the cases people would rather not play than sell at spot or in over 50% of the cases would rather take all their own action than sell at spot.

[pleno1]

im just arguing black is white ofc but I think tis definitely a potential resolution with not that many negatives and a lot of positives.

Although I'm sure others have reasons why they think there are negatives so obv post itt.

Pete Mfkin Linton, what a boss.

[skolsuper]

It takes a special level of economics fail to think that people who only sell are the reason prices are too high.

[titaniumbean]

It takes a special level of economics fail to think that people who only sell are the reason prices are too high.

<3

[Doobs]

People seem to overestimate their edge vs fish.  I think I play on 3 sites that have a higher proportion of recs than the others.  I checked my stats on those sites earlier and was fairly surprised to discover my overall ROI is 20% and my overall ROI on the fishier sites is only 5% more (and my money return is practically zero after nearly 2000 games!)

I don't think it is just me either, I checked three others I know who play on both Stars and the French sites and compared ROIs on the French sites vs Stars.  One was 10% better, one 50%, one was 4% worse.  

I know sample sizes are smaller on the fishier sites, but if you have a field with more fish than average present, then I don't think you have as much edge as you'd naturally assume (the average over the 4 people is around 15%).  I'd say all these sites I am thinking of have a significant proportion of genuinely terrible players on them.  It was pretty much the same when I played cash too, a high proportion of fish were in amongst those I won most money from, but at the other end of the table there was a fair smattering of fishier players too.  Simply, some hands you are always getting your chips in with a race, whether you are playing against Jerry Yang or Phil Ivey.

I haven't played a whole lot in the WSOP main (maybe 40 or 50 hours, maybe 15 tables), but am not at all convinced it starts off any fishier than the French sites, or some of the lower entry fee tournaments on Stars, or even in the Million on stars proper.  In addition, the tables must get tougher by the day and though you may have a big edge at the start, do you really have the same edge when the big prizes are decided (or even when the smaller ones are)?   And those big prizes are the ones that kick up your ROI long run.  As MTT players go, I am probably one of the better ones, but am I really going to have any edge at an average hold'em WSOP final table?  Do the people who sell at big markups really believe they will?  

It is often mentioned in staking requests how the fishier entry justifies the mark up in the main event, but I don't see it mentioned that the higher variance from such a big field should mean the mark up should be lowered.  Whilst the big population of fishy players is played up, the high proportion of the very best poker players on the planet doesn't get much of a mention.  

I think people underestimate the value only they get.  I am not really in Vegas for the ROI, this is very much a trip where I must be -EV after expenses, yet knowing this I am still going.  If I wanted to maximise ROI I'd be staying here and playing on my PC, or at a DTD deepstack or playing the Sky Poker Tour.  I am there for the bracelet, the entry on my Hendon Mob, and to be able to have something to bore the grandkids with.  And those things are the ones that only I really benefit from, and they should mean I should be willing to take a lower mark up too.

Anyway all feels a bit TLDR now.  Finally agree with Pleno, people should be keeping a chunk if playing a big event.  I don't mean where someone is clearly under it wants a few dollars to play something small or a reasonable schedule.  But if people want to play something big, they should back up their belief they have the big edge with hard cash.

[pleno1]

great post, finally agree with Doobs.

[aaron1867]

All of what doobs said.

People are overestimating their ability, some having not played in the event  before, it is at times silly

[rfgqqabc]

but people who only buy shouldn't really be punished right?

"how dare you never take money form the staking economy and help people play in events they are under-rolled for"

You said you sell between other players at spot and this doesnt work when the other party don't play.

And the other group I meant were people who would stop selling on blonde and continue to buy. My point was saying well if we all sell at spot it evens out when some people would consciously decide to go elsewhere but still buy- and this would cause issues.