Staking Resolution - The Bank Of Timex (w-interview)

[pleno1]

Somebody who has claimed to win

I have amassed over $1.5million in Tournament earnings, winning many tournaments along the way, including;
The Stars Sunday Bigger $109,
The Stars $100rebuy (numerous times)
The Party Poker High Roller ($530)
The FTP $163 (T-Rex, Numerous times)
The 888 Sunday Major (100k gtd)
I've also Finalled the Party Sunday Major twice, the boss major, a SCOOP event, and many others that I won't bore you by listing.

My live experience/confidence was given a huge boost, when I went deep making the final few tables of my first EPT in Madrid finishing 19th last year. I also made a deep run in a $1500 WSOP event a few years ago finishing 34th.

Would likely sell out v quickly on here at 1.5 despite this marketplace being (100?) times smaller than that one.

[titaniumbean]

surely it just shows that on a board with a higher proportion of 'picky' buyers the mus have to be lower rather than just these random, oh its live so 1.2, wsop 1.3, wsop me 1.5 etc

[Woodsey]

I'm not picking on Andy here this is just a general question, but if someone puts up a staking request at a premium and they show a bit of a loss on OPR I think its fair to question them. Sure some of their mates might say xyz about them, but it's hard to go against evidence on OPR v 'mates opinions'.

[SuuPRlim]

Think people have taken such huge offence to his "Mediocre regs playing EPTS and scraping my profit up" and using the word scammer, which were both inappropriate and badly worded points on his behalf (in an interview that, aside from those points he came across well in imo) that they've missed the points.

1) He's not claiming (as far as I can see) to be doing this for the "good of the poker economy" he's doing it because i) He thinks personally that mark-ups are too high, and it benefits him - who both buys action, and plays in the events the action is being sold for if the market is adjusted "correctly", and ii) He's prepared to put his money behind these opinions and make money from the fact that people sell at, and buy at too high of a price.

If the model he's presented IS a profitable one, then he'll prove beyond doubt that those opinions of his are CORRECT.

However, it's so high variance, the margins aren't that big and he doesn't have perfect information so it's going to be tough to ACTUALLY prove anything, but I think he's hoping that him, who carries quite a bit of wieght in the poker world stumping up his own cash like this will make enough of an impact.

I agree with him, on the mark-up fronts anyways, and think it's pretty ballsy of him to do this, also if you make a PUBLIC staking thread then you are, imo completely open to ANY criticism over the price, wherever it comes from. If you can't take that then you shouldn't put the thread up.

It's a good idea imo, and it will have a benefit for the staking community in general. MArk-ups are far too high atm, even on here, but much worse on 2+2 - people dream up huge ROI's when they are simply hugely misguided.  

and +1 excellent interview tekkers Pads, I listened to 2 of these now and I enjoyed them both.

[horseplayer]

i do not understand any of this really but is fascinating reading/observing

and a very good interview

nice work

[The Camel]

Two things:

1. If the mediocre regs are inferior players to him, surely it benefits his ROI for as many of them to play as possible?

2. I have just broken my own PB for number of PMs received in a day. Going to crack open a beer to celebrate being so popular.

[SuuPRlim]

1. If the mediocre regs are inferior players to him, surely it benefits his ROI for as many of them to play as possible?

Nah, because they are still winning, so unless every "mediocre reg (say 15% ROI) " that comes into a 10k event unless they bring someone with them who loses 15% then money Timex could be winning goes to the "mediocre reg." Now Obviously the profit will be coming mostly from the weakest parts of the field than from the strongest but will still take a lil money away from him. If these guys can sell at higher mark-ups then more of them can play more events. Also if they were marked-up correctly then he could buy action and re-claim his lost profits that way.

2. I have just broken my own PB for number of PMs received in a day. Going to crack open a beer to celebrate being so popular.

I told you months ago you weren't a wanker!

[cambridgealex]

1. If the mediocre regs are inferior players to him, surely it benefits his ROI for as many of them to play as possible?

Nah, because they are still winning, so unless every "mediocre reg (say 15% ROI) " that comes into a 10k event unless they bring someone with them who loses 15% then money Timex could be winning goes to the "mediocre reg." Now Obviously the profit will be coming mostly from the weakest parts of the field than from the strongest but will still take a lil money away from him. If these guys can sell at higher mark-ups then more of them can play more events. Also if they were marked-up correctly then he could buy action and re-claim his lost profits that way.

2. I have just broken my own PB for number of PMs received in a day. Going to crack open a beer to celebrate being so popular.

I told you months ago you weren't a wanker!

You don't know what the pms say!

[The Camel]

1. If the mediocre regs are inferior players to him, surely it benefits his ROI for as many of them to play as possible?

Nah, because they are still winning, so unless every "mediocre reg (say 15% ROI) " that comes into a 10k event unless they bring someone with them who loses 15% then money Timex could be winning goes to the "mediocre reg." Now Obviously the profit will be coming mostly from the weakest parts of the field than from the strongest but will still take a lil money away from him. If these guys can sell at higher mark-ups then more of them can play more events. Also if they were marked-up correctly then he could buy action and re-claim his lost profits that way.

2. I have just broken my own PB for number of PMs received in a day. Going to crack open a beer to celebrate being so popular.

I told you months ago you weren't a wanker!

You don't know what the pms say!

Most of them are from people calling me a wanker tbh

[Tal]

Most of them are about number plates.

[titaniumbean]

I'm not picking on Andy here this is just a general question, but if someone puts up a staking request at a premium and they show a bit of a loss on OPR I think its fair to question them. Sure some of their mates might say xyz about them, but it's hard to go against evidence on OPR v 'mates opinions'.

so player a has 15 tournies and shows a loss, player b has 0 tournies therefore he's a better prospect even though has none of the experience player a possibly has?

basically live poker is just joke results orientated. those who have achieved larger samples online have found there is a shocking amount of variance, with people like moorman going on brutal downswings whilst being one of the very best in the world.

with the payouts for mtts being so top heavy a couple of deep runs and some 9ths shows up as a poor roi whilst just 1 deep run to first projects the players roi up massively. it also skews it way past where it should be .


the whole point of judging someones ability means that you have to have an indepth knowledge of their game, not only that but an indepth knowledge or at least understanding of their finances/motivations. most people are pretty poor at assessing how good a player is, when you then ask them to assess themselves it becomes ridiculous how far away from reality that assessment can be. such that you often just have to go on your perception of them as a person and the amount/willingness to put alot of work in on their game and their temperament etc.


quite specifically woodsey I think you should go more on people you trusts opinions of the poster than on some arbitrary figures especially when the sample sizes are so small. (remembering that a sample size of 4k 9 man sngs is going to be alot more telling than a sample size of  4k 10k runner mtts).

as I said before and i'm not trying to be rude just using the dtd all time money list, would you think your were buying money buying a piece of rastafish in any dtd comp at a large markup rate, because over a sample of 5 tournaments he's managed to return a colossal roi?

[dreenie]

I'm not picking on Andy here this is just a general question, but if someone puts up a staking request at a premium and they show a bit of a loss on OPR I think its fair to question them. Sure some of their mates might say xyz about them, but it's hard to go against evidence on OPR v 'mates opinions'.

so player a has 15 tournies and shows a loss, player b has 0 tournies therefore he's a better prospect even though has none of the experience player a possibly has?

basically live poker is just joke results orientated. those who have achieved larger samples online have found there is a shocking amount of variance, with people like moorman going on brutal downswings whilst being one of the very best in the world.

with the payouts for mtts being so top heavy a couple of deep runs and some 9ths shows up as a poor roi whilst just 1 deep run to first projects the players roi up massively. it also skews it way past where it should be .


the whole point of judging someones ability means that you have to have an indepth knowledge of their game, not only that but an indepth knowledge or at least understanding of their finances/motivations. most people are pretty poor at assessing how good a player is, when you then ask them to assess themselves it becomes ridiculous how far away from reality that assessment can be. such that you often just have to go on your perception of them as a person and the amount/willingness to put alot of work in on their game and their temperament etc.


quite specifically woodsey I think you should go more on people you trusts opinions of the poster than on some arbitrary figures especially when the sample sizes are so small. (remembering that a sample size of 4k 9 man sngs is going to be alot more telling than a sample size of  4k 10k runner mtts).

as I said before and i'm not trying to be rude just using the dtd all time money list, would you think your were buying money buying a piece of rastafish in any dtd comp at a large markup rate, because over a sample of 5 tournaments he's managed to return a colossal roi?

Great post Titty

[Woodsey]

I'm not picking on Andy here this is just a general question, but if someone puts up a staking request at a premium and they show a bit of a loss on OPR I think its fair to question them. Sure some of their mates might say xyz about them, but it's hard to go against evidence on OPR v 'mates opinions'.

so player a has 15 tournies and shows a loss, player b has 0 tournies therefore he's a better prospect even though has none of the experience player a possibly has?

basically live poker is just joke results orientated. those who have achieved larger samples online have found there is a shocking amount of variance, with people like moorman going on brutal downswings whilst being one of the very best in the world.

with the payouts for mtts being so top heavy a couple of deep runs and some 9ths shows up as a poor roi whilst just 1 deep run to first projects the players roi up massively. it also skews it way past where it should be .


the whole point of judging someones ability means that you have to have an indepth knowledge of their game, not only that but an indepth knowledge or at least understanding of their finances/motivations. most people are pretty poor at assessing how good a player is, when you then ask them to assess themselves it becomes ridiculous how far away from reality that assessment can be. such that you often just have to go on your perception of them as a person and the amount/willingness to put alot of work in on their game and their temperament etc.


quite specifically woodsey I think you should go more on people you trusts opinions of the poster than on some arbitrary figures especially when the sample sizes are so small. (remembering that a sample size of 4k 9 man sngs is going to be alot more telling than a sample size of  4k 10k runner mtts).

as I said before and i'm not trying to be rude just using the dtd all time money list, would you think your were buying money buying a piece of rastafish in any dtd comp at a large markup rate, because over a sample of 5 tournaments he's managed to return a colossal roi?

I know exactly what you are saying, so what would be a reasonable sample size to go by on OPR?

The problem with people opinions is its easy for a group of friends to big each other up on here and create a false impression of their abilities. Now I'm not saying that deffo happens but you get the general point it think.

I'm tempted to look through the OPRs of a bunch of 'top' players to see how many they have played and what their ROI is.

[skolsuper]

God help me, I agree with Woodsey

[skolsuper]

Fucking Ridiculous Comment as the data you supplied doesnt tell the whole story

Titanium made some very good points( be it in his style) but now for his efforts he gets you having a go

This is somebody who seldom asks for staking and yet is one of the biggest stakers on Blonde

Joke Post

Is it possible that a winning player could play 4000 mtts of varying buyins with 3k avg field size with a negative ROI?  Absolutely.

Could that player sell action to another tournament and even include some markup?  Of course, and if people still want to buy then that's their prerogative and they may well have good reasons.

Could that player then, having sold with that markup, then go on to criticise others for their markup, using words like 'scammer' and 'douchebaggery'?  Well it's a little bit rich, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Is it a "Fucking Ridiculous Comment" and a "Joke Post" if someone comments on all of the above?  I think that's a bridge too far for me.  Titbean is a grown-up and he reaps what he sows when it comes to what he posts on the forum, as do all of us.  Good post from jjandellis imo, well I enjoyed it anyway