Rob Yong and DTD..Your views

[AlunB]

Regarding training sites, again a one sided view.

Every week I do a live seminar and I infrequently release videos.

This week I released a video. It has now had 5000 isn views. Our of these views maybe MAXIMUM 100 people actually play in the games, probably closer to 30!! For the rest it's about seeing where they can get to and a motivation for them to play.

With card runners people used to aspire to be that 5knl grinder. I know after watching a training video 4 years ago I was motivated to play and deposit!!

The videos are made by successful players who are perhaps creating an illusion abut the simplicity of online poker and generating mass deposits. The positives definitely balance the negatives. Out of those 5000 guys I would assume that some will learn and some will gt Better but the majority of them will not remember any of it come next week.

Especially with pokerstrategy we do thi gs such as "heads up championships" and numerous other fun positive things for entertainment to motivate deposits and to popularize poker.

I don't think your point and my point and really in conflict. I'm not saying training sites turned everyone into a monster overnight, but they did accelerate learning massively for a minority. And you don't actually need that many pros playing 8-12 tables for a few hours every day to make a BIG impact.

[DaveShoelace]

Hi

Read these comments. I have never used tracking software. Pleno - can you answer these 2 questions for me please;

1. What % of online cash game pros do you believe use tracking software?

2. Why do this % of online pros bother buying and using the tracking software if it doesn't make any difference

I'm genuinely interested in the answers as I'm strictly a live player.

Cheers for feedback ,Simon

Hi Simon what would be best would be for me to set up a show with rob and Steve mcloughlin - the head of pokertracker. He is a friend and one of the most knowledgable people In the industry. He is THE most knowledgable when it comes to tracking software.


I'm pretty sure that tracking software is built purposely for post game review. I would assume out of everybody who uses a HUD only 5% would do post game analysis. Out of that 5% is suggest only 5% more would really be able to use it properly.

People buy things because they feel its minus ev not to. People do this in any kind of industry. Poker players especially are so easy to sell anything to. It will have a slight advantage I'm sure but definitely not to the scale that is being portrayed here or in the blogs.

You two having dinner together must be hilarious

Would you believe that when I took him out and he said "I'll have whatever you gave" that he said it was the nicest teak restaurant he had been to? Haha

[mumblesrock]

All recreational players and most others who don't grind for a living would support Rob's ideas i'm sure!!

Having seen comments made my Rob on cash tables, I assume he is leaving the industry regardless to travel with his partner.  I just hope that he remains in control of DTD even if its the live club activity as apposed to the online site.  The DTD club is such a unique event that it really is world class, however there are so many online providers that I am sure it is a very difficult business to develop a niche in the market and turn a decent profit.
  
I don't think DTD even if sold to a large chain of casinos, will run DTD in the same spirit that it is being run now....... and that would be a massive shame to this industry.  Like Maggie Thatcher I don't think Rob is for turning!!  But I personally wish him every luck in the future what ever he decides to do!!  I hope that everyone supports this effort and at least if nothing else rob may get a reasonable price for his DTD brand should he wish to sell in the future!

[DTD-ACES]

Hi

Read these comments. I have never used tracking software. Pleno - can you answer these 2 questions for me please;

1. What % of online cash game pros do you believe use tracking software?

2. Why do this % of online pros bother buying and using the tracking software if it doesn't make any difference

I'm genuinely interested in the answers as I'm strictly a live player.

Cheers for feedback ,Simon

Hi Simon what would be best would be for me to set up a show with rob and Steve mcloughlin - the head of pokertracker. He is a friend and one of the most knowledgable people In the industry. He is THE most knowledgable when it comes to tracking software.


I'm pretty sure that tracking software is built purposely for post game review. I would assume out of everybody who uses a HUD only 5% would do post game analysis. Out of that 5% is suggest only 5% more would really be able to use it properly.

People buy things because they feel its minus ev not to. People do this in any kind of industry. Poker players especially are so easy to sell anything to. It will have a slight advantage I'm sure but definitely not to the scale that is being portrayed here or in the blogs.

Hi mate

Thanks but am I going mad  here- sorry, I will ask again and try an be clearer, can you guys help me out here, Im perplexed now - I cant get a 1 word answer for these basic questions:

1. Can anyone on here answer me what % of online pro cash game players use poker tracking software? X %

2. Does poker tracking software improve a players win rate? Yes/No

This is 3rd time I've asked this? Its for my personal knowledge and if the answer to Q 2 is 'NO' then who cares whether we ban it? This is like groundhog day

Cheers Simon

.

[DaveShoelace]

A couple of us have suggested it is the very high 90%s. I'd say over 95%.

Around 1 in 6 active poker players uses tracking software, which I have heard from a very reliable source, and obviously that includes non pros.

[pleno1]

Regarding training sites, again a one sided view.

Every week I do a live seminar and I infrequently release videos.

This week I released a video. It has now had 5000 isn views. Our of these views maybe MAXIMUM 100 people actually play in the games, probably closer to 30!! For the rest it's about seeing where they can get to and a motivation for them to play.

With card runners people used to aspire to be that 5knl grinder. I know after watching a training video 4 years ago I was motivated to play and deposit!!

The videos are made by successful players who are perhaps creating an illusion abut the simplicity of online poker and generating mass deposits. The positives definitely balance the negatives. Out of those 5000 guys I would assume that some will learn and some will gt Better but the majority of them will not remember any of it come next week.

Especially with pokerstrategy we do thi gs such as "heads up championships" and numerous other fun positive things for entertainment to motivate deposits and to popularize poker.

I don't think your point and my point and really in conflict. I'm not saying training sites turned everyone into a monster overnight, but they did accelerate learning massively for a minority. And you don't actually need that many pros playing 8-12 tables for a few hours every day to make a BIG impact.

And they also generated a lot of deposits too. Out of my 6 housemates, 3 subscribed to cardrunners paying a big percentage of their weekly allowance. They all deposited 1k and all lost it grinding 25nl whilst listening to the pros advice.

Ofc lol sample size, but due to the HUGE numbers who watch these videos the actual number who profit from it is miniscule.

Let me take this as an example.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/27332/

This is a video about starting poker, being the best, being motivated, having a blog and joining in with a coaches dream of crushing.

12000 views
450 comments of people writing "fuck yeah im going to deposit and be a crusher too"


http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/7013/

27000 viewers! This is for a 500 mtt on stars, people watch these as entertainment. Often they wont even take in whats being said. Out of those 27000 Im sure that some improved something about their game, Id even agree and say that even most intended to learn alot but in reality it was a source of entertainment and a further push in the direction of the guys that playing poker is really fun, cool and popular.

This video ahs 150,000 views! 150k for fuck sake!!!

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/2051/

This is about BASIC poker, where the site is literally teaching peoples mums, brothers and school friends how to play the very basics thus encouraging participation rather than helping being be the best at poker.

Last point is about these superstars

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/19725/

Girah, one of the most famous guys in poker at the time, like galfond or whoever else. This is a 1knl video and the strategy is above and beyond what most can comprehend, but still you have literally inconceivable amount of views from people who see it as entertainment.

I really think that sites such as these are a positive for the industry and that people look at it very one sided. OFC it will speed up the progression of a lot of players but that is inevitable for anybody who spends a lot of their spare time reading or learning about something so passionately.

NOTE. I work and am responsible for the content above and probably biased.

[Dubai]

How is anyone supposed to know the exact answer? Several people have suggested in the 90%+ region. Id say that is probably reflective of people who are multitabling ring games, plenty of people I know who play headsup don't bother with huds

As Daveshoelace says, HUDs etc just enable people to play more tables whilst reducing their win rates by less than it would by adding each table without a hud. The fish will still lose, regardless of huds, and on each separate table they will lose more money quicker if a good player is now playing 4 tables without a hud rather than 12 with a hud.

[pleno1]

Hi

Read these comments. I have never used tracking software. Pleno - can you answer these 2 questions for me please;

1. What % of online cash game pros do you believe use tracking software?

2. Why do this % of online pros bother buying and using the tracking software if it doesn't make any difference

I'm genuinely interested in the answers as I'm strictly a live player.

Cheers for feedback ,Simon

Hi Simon what would be best would be for me to set up a show with rob and Steve mcloughlin - the head of pokertracker. He is a friend and one of the most knowledgable people In the industry. He is THE most knowledgable when it comes to tracking software.


I'm pretty sure that tracking software is built purposely for post game review. I would assume out of everybody who uses a HUD only 5% would do post game analysis. Out of that 5% is suggest only 5% more would really be able to use it properly.

People buy things because they feel its minus ev not to. People do this in any kind of industry. Poker players especially are so easy to sell anything to. It will have a slight advantage I'm sure but definitely not to the scale that is being portrayed here or in the blogs.

Hi mate

Am I going mad  here- sorry, I will ask again: can anyone on here answer me what % of online pro cash game players use poker tracking software?

Are you going mad? Im not sure mate. I cant answer your question, I dont know. What counts as pro? Probably more non pros use HUDs than Pros though.

Steven will know though thats for sure.

Im pretty sure that Rob would learn a lot from Steven and Steven would speak about all of the issues in great depth. We can even host the show and thus get a lot of promotion around the whole topic. xpost it on 2p2 etc etc.

[DTD-ACES]

How is anyone supposed to know the exact answer? Several people have suggested in the 90%+ region. Id say that is probably reflective of people who are multitabling ring games, plenty of people I know who play headsup don't bother with huds

As Daveshoelace says, HUDs etc just enable people to play more tables whilst reducing their win rates by less than it would by adding each table without a hud. The fish will still lose, regardless of huds, and on each separate table they will lose more money quicker if a good player is now playing 4 tables without a hud rather than 12 with a hud.

Thank you. Forgive my ignorance. Therefore would it be correct to say that new and recreational players (or experienced fish) would lose their bankrolls at a slower rate the 90-95%  of pro players did not use online tracking software? ie it was banned

Sorry, Im an online virgin, these many be obvious questions

[RED-DOG]

I have a question.

What's the under/over on Pleno mentioning or posting a link to pokerstrategy again within the next 10 posts?

[DTD-ACES]

I have a question.

What's the under/over on Pleno mentioning or posting a link to pokerstrategy again within the next 10 posts?

Okay. What % of PokerStratgey players use HUD's?

[Dubai]

A new player would probably lose his money faster on DTD with no huds and no tracking software than on other sites. Assuming a good player is playing solely on DTD at the same time.

Reason being you are reducing the number of tables the latter could play which increases his winrate. So a "good" player playing a maximum of 4tables without huds/tracking software will win more on each table than he would compared to if he was playing 12 tables+ with huds and software. Therefore the "fish/rec" will lose his money faster because of this than if he was playing on other sites where the "good" player would be playing 12+tables

I really like the idea and concept behind it, and preventing collusion, multi accounting, blocking tables, excessive bumhunting is defo a great idea but its a different argument to the HUD/Pokertracker one. But if "Rec/fish" want to play people without these then maybe there is a market for it, even tho its gonna cost them more money longterm.

[AlunB]

How is anyone supposed to know the exact answer? Several people have suggested in the 90%+ region. Id say that is probably reflective of people who are multitabling ring games, plenty of people I know who play headsup don't bother with huds

As Daveshoelace says, HUDs etc just enable people to play more tables whilst reducing their win rates by less than it would by adding each table without a hud. The fish will still lose, regardless of huds, and on each separate table they will lose more money quicker if a good player is now playing 4 tables without a hud rather than 12 with a hud.

I don't entirely buy this argument, and have argued with mr mcloughlin about it before. But assuming all HUDs do is allow people to play more tables. Isn't this also a problem for everyone other than the pros and the poker rooms?

[RED-DOG]

I have a question.

What's the under/over on Pleno mentioning or posting a link to pokerstrategy again within the next 10 posts?

Okay. What % of PokerStratgey players use HUD's?

I lolled.

[Dubai]

Well it does mean more money is being taken out of the poker community, but conversely it means more tables, more liquidity and therefore more new players being introduced- so its just a case of balancing the two, which stars seem to do pretty well.

I will state again. I don't use a hud and don't even have pokertracker etc installed on this pc