WSOP Final table

[pleno1]

I think it's really judgemental saying that someone hasn't worked hard or isn't listening. Yes he has coaches in the corner but it's a bit different when you're sat at the table alone.

Not everyone's poker motivation is to be the best in the business. He's probably say playing heads up thinking about how much of his money he can spend on hookers and blow.

Poker's always been a leveller- if this guy makes some sizing mistakes doesn't mean you can call a spade a spade.

Plus I wouldn't say anything to him with those guns. just in case

he was a professional poker player for a long time in Vegas too, hes an amateur now but hes played a lot of poker. Going to 2.7m to 4.5m is jsut inexcusable there is really no way it should ever happen.

Im not asking him to want to be the best in the business, im asking him to respect the luck hes got to get to where we would all dream of and make the best of it. If for some reason you were allowed to play for Man United in one match and you had 3 months to train, would you go in there for the first 5 minutes with no studs in your boots? Youd be really prepared and ready to go, the technical stuff (post flop) would obviosly be excusable but if you hadnt gained fitness etc you would be  an idiot.

Def wouldnt want to take him on in the ring.

Can you come back and explain this please?

His 3bet sizings were incredibly small.

For example when he made 2.4m, Reiss was making it around 6.8m, and generally going 2.5x-3x his open size.

Reiss opened to 2.7m or something and Farber 3bet to 4.5m when they both had 100bb stacks with k9 and a8, hands that would naturally fall into a passive defend range (just call) but instead he decided to 3bet them (fine, wte) but chose ridiculous sizings. At the first chance possible his rail called him over and he changed his sizings similar to Reiss.


What I meant was that he had 3 months and having the basic sizings is so standard to have, if youre heads up and somehow do this then whatever it could be excusable, but not preparing when you are SO lucky to have Ben Lamb, Deeb, Vannessa etc in your rail and entourage just made me feel angry about it all. Im probably weird.

[pleno1]

I only watched it play to the final table the day before and all credit to reiss he was 11 th ? With 4 million chips he kept cool and got there ,farber  had some good cards to get his stack going and kept it up to come second ,he probably entered the main event as a rec with a dream like some of us do ,even tho we know we can't win ,fair play and well done to both of them ,personally I've enjoyed watching the coverage on espn and no doubt will do the same next year too  
Same as with darvin moon v joe cada there was always only going to be one result !  The pro / grinder should win

again, espn showing this misconception.

farber was a 5-10 reg professional for a long time.

Ha you owned me with that post. Moving you up to 5-10

It took me 7 years to get there!

He has been a professional player, hes not a random punter.

[AlunB]

I think it's really judgemental saying that someone hasn't worked hard or isn't listening. Yes he has coaches in the corner but it's a bit different when you're sat at the table alone.

Not everyone's poker motivation is to be the best in the business. He's probably say playing heads up thinking about how much of his money he can spend on hookers and blow.

Poker's always been a leveller- if this guy makes some sizing mistakes doesn't mean you can call a spade a spade.

Plus I wouldn't say anything to him with those guns. just in case

he was a professional poker player for a long time in Vegas too, hes an amateur now but hes played a lot of poker. Going to 2.7m to 4.5m is jsut inexcusable there is really no way it should ever happen.

Im not asking him to want to be the best in the business, im asking him to respect the luck hes got to get to where we would all dream of and make the best of it. If for some reason you were allowed to play for Man United in one match and you had 3 months to train, would you go in there for the first 5 minutes with no studs in your boots? Youd be really prepared and ready to go, the technical stuff (post flop) would obviosly be excusable but if you hadnt gained fitness etc you would be  an idiot.

Def wouldnt want to take him on in the ring.

Can you come back and explain this please?

His 3bet sizings were incredibly small.

For example when he made 2.4m, Reiss was making it around 6.8m, and generally going 2.5x-3x his open size.

Reiss opened to 2.7m or something and Farber 3bet to 4.5m when they both had 100bb stacks with k9 and a8, hands that would naturally fall into a passive defend range (just call) but instead he decided to 3bet them (fine, wte) but chose ridiculous sizings. At the first chance possible his rail called him over and he changed his sizings similar to Reiss.


What I meant was that he had 3 months and having the basic sizings is so standard to have, if youre heads up and somehow do this then whatever it could be excusable, but not preparing when you are SO lucky to have Ben Lamb, Deeb, Vannessa etc in your rail and entourage just made me feel angry about it all. Im probably weird.

Thanks. And to be honest I'm minded to agree. I wouldn't hate on the guy for not doing so, and ofc it's his life to do with as he chooses, but it does seem a bit of a wasted opportunity. That said I think lildave is more likely to be correct. Big stage, huge money, he just didn't play optimally. Pretty easy to do. I'm likely the world's worst heads-up player and made some terribad mistakes at the only £100 tourney I've got heads-up in. Finished second obv, like a pro.

[Jono3131]

Some of the posts in this thread and on 2p2 by supposed 'heros' and big winners actually disgust me.

You've got a guy who has paid $10k, and got to where he is probably largely by luck.

He doesn't deserve to be torn apart by every pro and spotty 22 year old who crush the game.

If Havant and Waterlooville had made it past the 6th round a few years back against Liverpool and ended up playing Man Utd in the quarters, would you expect every top pundit and top player to be tweeting and commentating on how shit they were playing? 'OMG, how did he miss that from 20 yards out, ROFL how did he not manage to hit that man from 40 yards away'.

You need to grow up, have some respect and let recreational players play however the fuck they want. It doesn't matter one bit how much effort and preparation you perceive them to have or have not put in. What if they were just happy with the $1mill they made and saw anything else as a bonus?

[pleno1]

loving all the football analogies itt.

Its more like a random guy luckboxed a chess freeroll to play for 3m dollars but hes gauranteed 1m.

He can be happy with his 1m, but if he didnt plan some openings or how to defend it would be silly right? Its exactly the same here.

Im sure if it was the biggest chess match in the world each year and super high profile the chess pundits would be amazed too.

He was also a professional poker player (7th time posted itt now)

[cambridgealex]

Some of the posts in this thread and on 2p2 by supposed 'heros' and big winners actually disgust me.

You've got a guy who has paid $10k, and got to where he is probably largely by luck.

He doesn't deserve to be torn apart by every pro and spotty 22 year old who crush the game.

If Havant and Waterlooville had made it past the 6th round a few years back against Liverpool and ended up playing Man Utd in the quarters, would you expect every top pundit and top player to be tweeting and commentating on how shit they were playing? 'OMG, how did he miss that from 20 yards out, ROFL how did he not manage to hit that man from 40 yards away'.

You need to grow up, have some respect and let recreational players play however the fuck they want. It doesn't matter one bit how much effort and preparation you perceive them to have or have not put in. What if they were just happy with the $1mill they made and saw anything else as a bonus?

For balance, I didn't agree with your posts in the other thread this week, but I 100% agree with this. Made for terrible reading some of pleno's posts itt and then to spoil the ending 10/15 minutes before the stream cos Duhamel had tweeted the ending was just the tip of the iceberg. OK not that big of a deal, but still spoiled it for me and others no doubt.

And to just defend the comments by saying "I'm the Joey Barton of poker, I say it like it is, deal with it" is just a joke.

"Respect the chance he's been given and prepare properly" etc etc - just the biggest load of drivel you've ever come up with. Actually probably not.

[AlunB]

Some of the posts in this thread and on 2p2 by supposed 'heros' and big winners actually disgust me.

You've got a guy who has paid $10k, and got to where he is probably largely by luck.

He doesn't deserve to be torn apart by every pro and spotty 22 year old who crush the game.

If Havant and Waterlooville had made it past the 6th round a few years back against Liverpool and ended up playing Man Utd in the quarters, would you expect every top pundit and top player to be tweeting and commentating on how shit they were playing? 'OMG, how did he miss that from 20 yards out, ROFL how did he not manage to hit that man from 40 yards away'.

You need to grow up, have some respect and let recreational players play however the fuck they want. It doesn't matter one bit how much effort and preparation you perceive them to have or have not put in. What if they were just happy with the $1mill they made and saw anything else as a bonus?

For balance, I didn't agree with your posts in the other thread this week, but I 100% agree with this. Made for terrible reading some of pleno's posts itt and then to spoil the ending 10/15 minutes before the stream cos Duhamel had tweeted the ending was just the tip of the iceberg. OK not that big of a deal, but still spoiled it for me and others no doubt.

And to just defend the comments by saying "I'm the Joey Barton of poker, I say it like it is, deal with it" is just a joke.

"Respect the chance he's been given and prepare properly" etc etc - just the biggest load of drivel you've ever come up with. Actually probably not.

For extra balance you can actually agree with him and with pleno (based on his posts in the last couple of pages). What pleno is saying is not actually in conflict with this.

[pleno1]

God Alex no idea why you continue this personal vendetta.



Ive posted all opinions and thoughts in this thread all youve done is moaned. Its 16 pages later, Im saying my thoughts and explaining tzhem and as usual youre either asking for red dog, or moaning about me, why keep checking 16 pages later, why keep reading my blog and replying. If you dont like it why do you keep posting?

Really have no idea what your intentions are but almost every post is just trying to make me look bad in some way or another, if you disagree say your reasons and we debate. Its a poker forum ffs, were allowed to say what we want if we believe in something or are passionate about something. Finally a thread about poker which is not about DTD and somebody saying what they think and its "disgusting' "terrible reading" etc. Blonde just so awful and boring when this is all I ever receive from you, Ive no idea what Ive done personally to you for this ridiculous vendetta, Ive absolutely no interest in you love nor hate, nor do I want to argue with you. With your posts in my blog I even laughed them off and tried not to cause an argument that Im sure you were looking for.


Your last posts itt.

I havent bit to you at all, nor all the posts in my blog that you tried to stir it up with.

Mods if this isnt constant trolling what exactly is? I look bad for trying to discuss things on a forum and this is all I get?

Some of the posts in this thread and on 2p2 by supposed 'heros' and big winners actually disgust me.

You've got a guy who has paid $10k, and got to where he is probably largely by luck.

He doesn't deserve to be torn apart by every pro and spotty 22 year old who crush the game.

If Havant and Waterlooville had made it past the 6th round a few years back against Liverpool and ended up playing Man Utd in the quarters, would you expect every top pundit and top player to be tweeting and commentating on how shit they were playing? 'OMG, how did he miss that from 20 yards out, ROFL how did he not manage to hit that man from 40 yards away'.

You need to grow up, have some respect and let recreational players play however the fuck they want. It doesn't matter one bit how much effort and preparation you perceive them to have or have not put in. What if they were just happy with the $1mill they made and saw anything else as a bonus?

For balance, I didn't agree with your posts in the other thread this week, but I 100% agree with this. Made for terrible reading some of pleno's posts itt and then to spoil the ending 10/15 minutes before the stream cos Duhamel had tweeted the ending was just the tip of the iceberg. OK not that big of a deal, but still spoiled it for me and others no doubt.

And to just defend the comments by saying "I'm the Joey Barton of poker, I say it like it is, deal with it" is just a joke.

"Respect the chance he's been given and prepare properly" etc etc - just the biggest load of drivel you've ever come up with. Actually probably not.

Can we get red dog itt

Wow supporting the Joey Barton of poker analogy, cool.

Good play from Riess to turn the momentum straight back. Yeah the AA8 one was gift wrapped for him - but he still had to have the heart and composure to take it.

I just meant after this hand it was gg. I was probably watching same stream as you.

Gg

The best man won on the night.

Great advert for the main event.

Guess he will gt a stars deal in the morning.

Such a douche for spoilering.

Outdone yourself itt pleno tonight.

Careful  with the insults though, blonde throws weeks bans for 1 word name calling these days.

Yours respectfully

Only applies to respected posters.

Spoilering a sweat like this is ridic out of line. I've just seen the end this second. A good 10 minutes after your post.

Gg

The best man won on the night.

Great advert for the main event.

Guess he will gt a stars deal in the morning.

Such a douche for spoilering.

Outdone yourself itt pleno tonight.

Great play from Riess last few hands, 3betting with junk. He wants to re-establish the momentum in the match, and senses that Farber will let him do it because he is so relieved to get back in the game that he will relax for a few hands.

And then he turns the screws with the QT. Brilliant.

This is hard to watch.

And I'm not talking about the final table.

[AlunB]

I think the November Nine thing makes a big difference to the point being discussed. You are given time off where you are expected to prepare. Expected to get a coach. Expected to have a game plan. Fair enough if you don't want to do any of those things, but equally fair enough to comment on people who haven't prepared.

The tone and nature of those comments is more what's being called into question in my view and that is an area where I totally agree a lot of people lost their minds and lost my (and many other people's) respect as a result*.






*not talking about pleno here as I didn't actually read this thread until this morning

[Jono3131]

loving all the football analogies itt.

Its more like a random guy luckboxed a chess freeroll to play for 3m dollars but hes gauranteed 1m.

He can be happy with his 1m, but if he didnt plan some openings or how to defend it would be silly right? Its exactly the same here.

Im sure if it was the biggest chess match in the world each year and super high profile the chess pundits would be amazed too.

He was also a professional poker player (7th time posted itt now)

Silly? Potenitally

Yours and everyone elses business to ridicule them on live coverage, twitter, forums etc where their friends, family, other recreational players that like to play the big tournaments and anyone else thinking about trying to get into the game to read? Absolutely not

[Pinchop73]

If I miss the grand prix on a Sunday and don't want to know the result, what I don't do is check the BBC F1 sports page.

[Tal]

loving all the football analogies itt.

Its more like a random guy luckboxed a chess freeroll to play for 3m dollars but hes gauranteed 1m.

He can be happy with his 1m, but if he didnt plan some openings or how to defend it would be silly right? Its exactly the same here.

Im sure if it was the biggest chess match in the world each year and super high profile the chess pundits would be amazed too.

He was also a professional poker player (7th time posted itt now)

Whilst I'm not convinced it is actually a viable comparison between chess and poker, it is actually a point worth making that there was a lot of noise made about how the challenger for the last world championship got to play for the title.

There was a knockout comp to decide who would be the candidate to challenge the champ, Vishy Anand. Due to the format, one guy was able to get past a few of the favourites on tiebreak blitz games. He then got beat by a guy who had overachieved to get to the final. "The winner should really never have got the seat", was the view expressed and many mocked Boris Gelfand's ability against the absolute elite.

But he got there.

He won games of chess against other people who were rated more highly.

He isn't going to go down as one of the all-time greats, much as there won't be many people with Oliver McCall boxing posters on their wall. Did he deserve to be playing for the world title? You bet your opening book he did.

He didn't disgrace himself and pushed Anand close. He is a top ten/top sixteen player in the world but still took stick for daring to have a chance to be World Champ.

These guys earned their chance by taking everyone else's chips over a week of hard graft, winning flips, sucking out and being fortunate enough to have enough chips when they lost hands to still be in.

I do think it's interesting to see a pro taking such an interest in this result. I have an image of Pleno doing a ketsbaia on a nearby chair, tho...

[cambridgealex]

I wish I could ignore it all pleno but you post 50-100 times a day in every thread on the forum, so it's kind of hard. I like many others have tried to ignore and keep the peace but I cracked lately. Will go back to biting my tongue every minute of every day.

[cambridgealex]

If I miss the grand prix on a Sunday and don't want to know the result, what I don't do is check the BBC F1 sports page.

Lol, it's nothing like that. Everyone on the forum was watching the same stream, sweating every hand together "he's got it", "he's bluffing" etc, calling in cards, predicting the result together etc, it was fun. Obv the stream is on a 15 minute delay, Pleno found out the result from twitter from a post from duhamel (who apologised later) and snap posted itt when he knew.

[CHIPPYMAN]

I wish I could ignore it all pleno but you post 50-100 times a day in every thread on the forum, so it's kind of hard. I like many others have tried to ignore and keep the peace but I cracked lately. Will go back to biting my tongue every minute of every day.

Agreed ! He's like Jason Herbert , posting 100-150 post per day . Lol