Do we need ANTES in DTD's £15 to £50 Evening Comps (30 min clocks or less)?

[CHIPPYMAN]

I never used the language boycott. And my post wasn't a threat. And I don't understand why I wouldn't be supporting Dtd if I didn't play an anteless tournament which wouldn't appeal to me.

Everytime I post , I offended someone . It's me who use the word "boycott" and not Bedi . Read my post carefully and it say " One less to beat " . It meant to be a joke and all people out there that don't understand my post come punishing !

[CHIPPYMAN]

Sorry Bedi

[George2Loose]

Nw Frankie mate. I know u were messing

[YEAHMAN123]

Just had a show of hands in the xxl comp at Dtd
I reckon 65/35% going towards keeping antes, pretty close
Thks Simon

[flushthemout]

voted, but not sure and not that bothered really, regs should have a say but again is this fair? would be different without antes but that's why dtd is boss, compulsory straddle in cash would be more fun.

[Cf]

It does raise an interesting point though.

Quite a few people (myself included) would opt not to play a tournament with the lack of antes being the reason.

I doubt many would decide not to play a comp because it does have antes.

[david3103]

It does raise an interesting point though.

Quite a few people (myself included) would opt not to play a tournament with the lack of antes being the reason.

I doubt many would decide not to play a comp because it does have antes.

The proposition is to remove antes in lower buy in short clock tourneys, I doubt you're part of the target market.
 

[Cf]

I still play the occasional low buyin comp. I never played at Gala and their structures and lack of running ante was one of the main reasons.

[kinboshi]

Just had a show of hands in the xxl comp at Dtd
I reckon 65/35% going towards keeping antes, pretty close
Thks Simon

Just to be devil's advocate, what about the voice of people who would be more inclined to play these tournaments if there are no antes? Lots of other reasons a straw poll like that doesn't necessarily give the result that would be seen in a poll conducted in a different manner.

[BulldozerD]

I originally voted for antes to be kept but fully understand Rob and Simon's points about the low buyin comps and the additional time it takes resulting in fewer hands. They are probably correct in that the extra hands play will probably offset the effect of not including antes and many of the participants are hardly likely to be that bothered. Might be worth experimenting with the low buy-in 1 evening comps.

I don't travel to DTD for many 1 day comps but can hardly think having/not having antes would be a big factor in my decision whether to play or not. Obviously longer and bigger buyin comps should be kept the way they currently are.

[BulldozerD]

I still play the occasional low buyin comp. I never played at Gala and their structures and lack of running ante was one of the main reasons.

The main reasons not to play at Gala back in the day were the organisation, the TD decisions and the bias towards regs not the fact that antes weren't in play. However I did play there occasionally as the said regs were pretty easy to play against. I actually miss those days.

[Doobs]

I play on Sky quite a bit along with 5 or 6 other sites.  When I first started I got irritated with the lack of antes, but I don't really notice any more.  I don't notice much difference in play between that and another one of the fishier sites I play on.  Some players are going to make optimistic calls whether there are antes in or not.   I just play where I think my ROI is best, and I think an easier game is much more important than a great structure or antes.  If it encourages newer players to join, then any edge you get from the antes will be balanced by having tables with less skilled players.  And surely the increased number of hands per hour works in the favour of the better players anyway?

I just can't see any harm in trying it and see what happens.  If it doesn't work, they can always be brought back.

I haven't voted, because DTD is a bit far away for me to play these comps.

Finally, surely nobody really gets more excited to rake a 10k pot full of shrapnel than one without? 

[blueace]

The 'fear of change' factor has to be considered when looking at the results. Therefore, with the vote being so close, I would say getting rid of antes wins hands down...

(in the £25 only)

[Oxford_HRV]

Since playing these £15-£50 comps around the Genting Card Rooms posting antes in a 20 min clock comp just seemed unnecessary and time consuming to me, I asked players on my tables, and they agreed that 'its a right pain'.

I asked Toby Stone (TD of the EPT and UKIPT) and our very own Simon Trumper (TD of a crappy industrial unit in Nottingham) -"why don't we remove antes from 1 day (or 1 evening) comps, as there comps are all effectively turbos no matter what fancy name we give them."

Both are in agreement that antes are not  necessary in these format of comps - they are there for 'purist' reasons, in reality,  the quicker clock and levels missing already eat away quickly into players stacks and therefore force players to make action.


I am personally 100% behind taking antes out of all DTD's £15 to £50 evening and 1 day comps for the following reasons;

1. These DTD comps are mainly aimed at recreational players, £15-£50 buy-ins, we need the game as simple as possible at this level

2. Players will see more hands per round with no antes because of the time saved to collect/count and payout the antes, more hands has got to mean a better live experience

3. Antes are introduced to 'force action', which I understand in Deepstack 2-4 day comps with longer clocks and small steps in blind levels, but 1 day comps are 15-30 mins with loads of levels missing, 'action' is already being forced in this comps so putting extra pressure on players with antes worsens the experience especially for the beginner/novice

4. Antes don't effect the time the comp will finish, this is determined by the SB BB structure, if fact, eliminating antes will increase hands dealt so might speed up the comp in certain areas.

As always, your feedback is much appreciated

Cheers Rob
 

Hi Rob, i am defintely behind the decision of keeping antes in. In these liveaments you have been playing would you say the starting stacks are too deep for the nightly cardroom turbo comp?
It's clear all these comps are turbos and have to be to get finished in reasonable time, circa 7hrs. your point of making it simple as possible for the players doesn't make much of a point, ante's are a very simple and easily understandable part of all tournament structures.
  I'm sure that the increase in hands per hour in these comps will not change game flow, it could be up to 5 hands per hour more but that is rather irrelevant. Antes are introduced to force action, and this is needed. Your average rec doesnt play much poker on the felt, they play 'snap' with flops and wait for big starting hands, you know aswell as i do, rec players care less about structure and more about starting stacks. this is why we are getting infated 30k+ starting stacks in certain places. this is definitely not good for the poker economy as newer players are getting less chance to learn how to effectively ''play'' the game, bluff/float ect and play the game for what it is! the stacks are so deep they think more about preservation and opportunitys to wait for their next big hand. than technicals of the game, years ago when starting stacks were 30bb players had great fun and punted stacks like no tomorrow, there was clear;y a sense of excitement and fear of knowing you gotta get going from the start. now players are just folding heros.
  I do struggle to put my point across as well as i think of it.
What i am concluding is, after the honeymoon period of taking antes out, i am 100% sure your tournaments will last longer and longer and become more of a fold festival. speeding up the deal will give people incentives to carry on folding as the next hand will take less time to be given to them.
  If i could have my way, no cardroom nightly turbo would have a starting stack of more than 8000 chips @50/100 as that will get people busting out earlier, therefore creating a deeper game later on.

as it was said. the grand prix final had 10bb avg. this is because these kind of players take no consideration into stack sizes in correlation to blind levels. but to pay bubbles/jumps and getting to final table.

[robyong]

Just finished by latest Genting comp, £40 FO in Blackpool, this one was played with NO ANTES.

The 20 min clock/missing levels forced me to play regardless of no antes, I asked players at every table and the vast majority didnt want antes at this level because they wanted to see more hands.

After playing 8 evening comps over last 2 weeks, I much prefer without antes, it's not even close, everything in so much quicker, more hands means more players bust, dealers are focussing on the game rather than collecting and counting antes. I am just so surprised that +50% of votes prefer the ante option, it's a no brainer to me having played both, I guess the more savvy players who can 'adjust to antes/pot sizes etc' could lose some edge if antes are taken out, but for general player experience, especially new and recreational - there is simply no comparison to me. Even though I am an experienced player, I guess I would put myself in the recreational bracket for these type of comps.

On another note, the biggest single complaint from players during  this tour is FINISHING TIMES of evening comps, but that's a whole new debate!

I Busted 8th, min cashed for £80

Cheerd Rob