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Author Topic: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..  (Read 57500 times)
hotdog
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« Reply #195 on: February 23, 2014, 02:33:14 PM »

I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.

Also is this true?? If so DTD need to sort it ASAP!!!!
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hotdog
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« Reply #196 on: February 23, 2014, 02:38:09 PM »

i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.


Totally agree but DTD/I poker need to address the chat and IP address issue. IMO this would not of been such a huge issue if these two small things were in order!
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The Camel
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« Reply #197 on: February 23, 2014, 02:38:51 PM »

I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.

Also is this true?? If so DTD need to sort it ASAP!!!!

You do like an exclamation mark!
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hotdog
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« Reply #198 on: February 23, 2014, 02:42:19 PM »

I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.

Also is this true?? If so DTD need to sort it ASAP!!!!

You do like an exclamation mark!

Got slightly carried away!!!!!!  dad dont dance
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #199 on: February 23, 2014, 02:52:54 PM »

Furthermore, did the guys on the other table in this very sat get investigated? The chat looked suspicious. Bad Beat blames DTD, DTD blames iPoker, and whilst this goes on some players will lose a bunch of equity. How hard can it be? I'm trying really hard to stay polite here, but not a single other sat should run until it is confirmed that hand for hand will be working. Not even arsed about the chat tbh, I'd let the idiots use it to out themselves.
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Mango99
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« Reply #200 on: February 23, 2014, 03:07:31 PM »

Furthermore, did the guys on the other table in this very sat get investigated? The chat looked suspicious. Bad Beat blames DTD, DTD blames iPoker, and whilst this goes on some players will lose a bunch of equity. How hard can it be? I'm trying really hard to stay polite here, but not a single other sat should run until it is confirmed that hand for hand will be working. Not even arsed about the chat tbh, I'd let the idiots use it to out themselves.

Bear mind it took iPoker several years to implement synchonised breaks, took them several months (over a year?) to fix a lobby display bug.That there are dozens of bugs and errors that have been in the software for many months/years, that must have been reported several dozen times. But nothing is seemingly done to fix them. Perhaps they are on a roadmap to be fixed at some point? But ipoker are painfully slow at getting anything done.

Basically, I wouldn't hold your breath on waiting for a fix. And I'd imagine it simply isn't feasible to not run another online satellite for a year or more.
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« Reply #201 on: February 23, 2014, 03:22:11 PM »

i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.

Your of course right if any one wants to collude in an on line games same ip and chat off set up would not be difficult to get round however there is the issue of players perception of the integrity of the game and those two things being right would help reduce the on line poker is rigged mind set
some one else in thread said that it was more important in bigger buy ins but i disagree think its more important in smaller buy ins where the its all rigged view is more prevalent

Are you saying you don't play hands differently depending on your perception of opponents style of play  
you play same way versus me as you do against vindoh  or cornucopia or poker pops
my perception of two involved on line play is two contrasting styles yarp with chips would be a night mare but i would expect him to play differently against different players depending on his view of there likely reaction to his play not wether he knows them or not would you not agree ?
 Therefore there is no way reviewing of hand histories will prove or disprove any thing unless you think everybody plays all hands same way against every other player




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dwayne110
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« Reply #202 on: February 23, 2014, 03:23:33 PM »

Mr Millidonk confirmed they'd received the allegations and sent responses to each, no?  I think it would be advisable to let the appeal process play out, so many sweeping statements and 'conclusions' being made by people with limited or no access to the facts of said alleged collusion. For the record, I have no knowledge of what happened or the players in question, but it's tilting to read so many black and white conclusions when this issue comes across as particularly grey.
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henrik777
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« Reply #203 on: February 23, 2014, 03:31:05 PM »

The standard of proof of the posters on this thread mean feck all. If the card room is satisfied you're cheating you're screwed whether you did it or not.

If there was no suspicion there would be no thread and no ban. There was a suspicion and whether that suspicion is correct or not matters not a jot. Prooving a negative is very difficult. It's not a criminal court or even a civil court with a lesser standard of proof. It's Ipoker and whatever pleases them.

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jack2off
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« Reply #204 on: February 23, 2014, 04:14:11 PM »

The standard of proof of the posters on this thread mean feck all. If the card room is satisfied you're cheating you're screwed whether you did it or not.

very true!!
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smurf
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« Reply #205 on: February 23, 2014, 04:16:47 PM »

i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.

Your of course right if any one wants to collude in an on line games same ip and chat off set up would not be difficult to get round however there is the issue of players perception of the integrity of the game and those two things being right would help reduce the on line poker is rigged mind set
some one else in thread said that it was more important in bigger buy ins but i disagree think its more important in smaller buy ins where the its all rigged view is more prevalent

Are you saying you don't play hands differently depending on your perception of opponents style of play  
you play same way versus me as you do against vindoh  or cornucopia or poker pops
my perception of two involved on line play is two contrasting styles yarp with chips would be a night mare but i would expect him to play differently against different players depending on his view of there likely reaction to his play not wether he knows them or not would you not agree ?
 Therefore there is no way reviewing of hand histories will prove or disprove any thing unless you think everybody plays all hands same way against every other player


no i wasn't saying how i would play a hand...i don't know how they look at hand histories or any of the players involved...i would think if player A had played 10,000 hands and had AA 50 times and raised 50 times then he suddenly folds this time then it would look suspicious....THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE...as i say i don't know any of them and wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of collusion whether it was against me or wrongly accused.
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TexasGrindEm
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« Reply #206 on: February 23, 2014, 04:40:28 PM »

Just a small question to ask - are guys, with the same IP address, allowed to sit at the same table in the Club Cash Games? I haven't got a problem with people playing on the same skin at the time in the same house, I am just against the idea of people playing in the same tournament/satellite. I am always wary of what's happening on my tables, keeping notes on them.
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« Reply #207 on: February 23, 2014, 07:14:47 PM »

I know guy and dave and I'm happy to say if they were colluding I would be extremely surprised, even with the evidence itt I still would think there is a less than 1% chance they deliberately colluded, I'm sure there is a chance they sub consciously soft played a little bit, for e.g. Guy has a pretty "meh"  marginal shove opportunity but decided "ah it's my pal in the BB so il make a tight(ish) fold, I don't think that is particularly bad at all as long as it is not pre-determined and decided between in advance.

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TexasGrindEm
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« Reply #208 on: February 23, 2014, 07:32:30 PM »

I know guy and dave and I'm happy to say if they were colluding I would be extremely surprised, even with the evidence itt I still would think there is a less than 1% chance they deliberately colluded, I'm sure there is a chance they sub consciously soft played a little bit, for e.g. Guy has a pretty "meh"  marginal shove opportunity but decided "ah it's my pal in the BB so il make a tight(ish) fold, I don't think that is particularly bad at all as long as it is not pre-determined and decided between in advance.


To be honest, I think it would be a terrible move - if that sort of move was under investigation and Millidonk had nothing to do with it then I think it would be pretty unfair on him. It would be down to Guy to stand up and say 'I do apologise for soft playing my mate and I'll take full responsibility for what has happened.' - Meaning Dave would get his ban lifted..... Hopefully it won't have to come to that and they are both cleared tbh, but I shan't be holding my breath as the thread starter has been 'proven' correct in what he has alleged.
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« Reply #209 on: February 23, 2014, 07:52:02 PM »

Been following this closely without comment. Know the guys well and hope beyond all hope they are cleared.

As for the integrity of online poker, this does make me chuckle. Collusion is rife, DTD have a zero tolerance policy and that is to be applauded, but the fact is it is so easily exploitable they haven't got a snowball chance in hell of ever ensuring a 100% clean game. Do the network owners expect that? My guess is they can't really, to police it fully would be too expensive.

Sometimes it's easier to turn a blind eye me thinks

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