Shark's Scope

[tikay]

if you cant make money at poker after making money for 4 years the simple fact is that youve probably been very lazy and not put any work in.

games such as 200nl are soft if you put work in and try to work on your game. if you win 4bb-100 at 100nl which is pretty easy to do, especially if you have played professionally for 4 years then you can easily make in excess of 50k-year.

HUDs are not the problem, Sharkscope is not the problem, self determination and hard work most likely is.

Sorry if I sound blunt btw.


this is just no limit btw, where HUDS are usually blamed.

Omaha, nobody really even knows how to play it properly, so definitely not dead.

Limit holdem, ok probably dead. but this is not because of huds.

Sngs, maybe, but this is not because of huds.

MTTs? Absolutely not.

If I may say so Patrick, that's a bit of a sweeping statement, is it not? NOBODY knows how to play it properly?

Sure, plenty have no idea, & the gulf between good & bad is huge. I'd say that was probably the case in NLH too, though.

I'd also disagree as to SNG's, which still command quite a significant slice of the total Online poker action - in most cases, approx equal or slightly larger than MTT action as a % of the whole. 

I've never suggested Sharkscope is the cause of all ills, but the majority of the recreationals dislike it, for whatever reason. We must not forget that the poker economy rests on the recreational guys. They might not Post on poker Forums, but they are still important, very important. Most of them will never make money, either. And they'll happily keep depositing. We ought to give their views, & them, some respect, in my personal view.

[tikay]

+1 to everything pleno says

John,

You seriously believe that NOBODY can play Omaha to a reasonable standard?

[pleno1]

if you cant make money at poker after making money for 4 years the simple fact is that youve probably been very lazy and not put any work in.

games such as 200nl are soft if you put work in and try to work on your game. if you win 4bb-100 at 100nl which is pretty easy to do, especially if you have played professionally for 4 years then you can easily make in excess of 50k-year.

HUDs are not the problem, Sharkscope is not the problem, self determination and hard work most likely is.

Sorry if I sound blunt btw.


this is just no limit btw, where HUDS are usually blamed.

Omaha, nobody really even knows how to play it properly, so definitely not dead.

Limit holdem, ok probably dead. but this is not because of huds.

Sngs, maybe, but this is not because of huds.

MTTs? Absolutely not.

If I may say so Patrick, that's a bit of a sweeping statement, is it not? NOBODY knows how to play it properly?

Sure, plenty have no idea, & the gulf between good & bad is huge. I'd say that was probably the case in NLH too, though.

I'd also disagree as to SNG's, which still command quite a significant slice of the total Online poker action - in most cases, approx equal or slightly larger than MTT action as a % of the whole. 

I've never suggested Sharkscope is the cause of all ills, but the majority of the recreationals dislike it, for whatever reason. We must not forget that the poker economy rests on the recreational guys. They might not Post on poker Forums, but they are still important, very important. Most of them will never make money, either. And they'll happily keep depositing. We ought to give their views, & them, some respect, in my personal view.

I meant more generally as in its probably similar in terms of no limit 2009 where there is ofc good players but in general a lot if people just trying to work out what's going on.

+1 to everything pleno says

John,

You seriously believe that NOBODY can play Omaha to a reasonable standard?

In the games on stars that should have all regulars in certain Omaha games there will often be 5 recreational players and one pro. When I say nobody you knew what I meant ofc. John just meant more work hard and don't blame others.

The best car salesman are still selling cars in recessions the lazy ones go to another job.

[tikay]

if you cant make money at poker after making money for 4 years the simple fact is that youve probably been very lazy and not put any work in.

games such as 200nl are soft if you put work in and try to work on your game. if you win 4bb-100 at 100nl which is pretty easy to do, especially if you have played professionally for 4 years then you can easily make in excess of 50k-year.

HUDs are not the problem, Sharkscope is not the problem, self determination and hard work most likely is.

Sorry if I sound blunt btw.


this is just no limit btw, where HUDS are usually blamed.

Omaha, nobody really even knows how to play it properly, so definitely not dead.

Limit holdem, ok probably dead. but this is not because of huds.

Sngs, maybe, but this is not because of huds.

MTTs? Absolutely not.

If I may say so Patrick, that's a bit of a sweeping statement, is it not? NOBODY knows how to play it properly?

Sure, plenty have no idea, & the gulf between good & bad is huge. I'd say that was probably the case in NLH too, though.

I'd also disagree as to SNG's, which still command quite a significant slice of the total Online poker action - in most cases, approx equal or slightly larger than MTT action as a % of the whole. 

I've never suggested Sharkscope is the cause of all ills, but the majority of the recreationals dislike it, for whatever reason. We must not forget that the poker economy rests on the recreational guys. They might not Post on poker Forums, but they are still important, very important. Most of them will never make money, either. And they'll happily keep depositing. We ought to give their views, & them, some respect, in my personal view.

I meant more generally as in its probably similar in terms of no limit 2009 where there is ofc good players but in general a lot if people just trying to work out what's going on.

+1 to everything pleno says

John,

You seriously believe that NOBODY can play Omaha to a reasonable standard?

In the games on stars that should have all regulars in certain Omaha games there will often be 5 recreational players and one pro. When I say nobody you knew what I meant ofc. John just meant more work hard and don't blame others.

The best car salesman are still selling cars in recessions the lazy ones go to another job.

I think there are plenty of folks who play Omaha well. We'll never be able to prove that, one way or the other, though. Everything is relative though, & if many play it badly, (& they/we do) then some must play it (relatively) well. Incidentally, Online Omaha volumes are picking up.

I do agree, 100%, that is it easy to just point fingers of blame because they are net losers, when the truth is, we get out of poker - or anything - what we put into it, & there is no substitute for hard work. You are proof of that. So yes, I agree. But that does not mean we should not keep looking at the game, & see if we can improve some things.

Some replies seem to suggest this is a BAD thread. Well if we want to retain the staqus quo, & just cross our fingers & hope everything turns out fine & dandy, then yes, they may be right.

It's a very odd thing when trying to look at ways to make our great game better are poo-poo'd.

[rfgqqabc]

edit: not got time, save it for later when i can check.

[pleno1]

Lol was just going to quote so you couldn't delete, it was a very very good post, agreed with it all.

[TightEnd]

edit: not got time, save it for later when i can check.

it was a good post

paragraphs!  :-)

fair policing of games is happening. i do it every night. i accept that chat box abuse/policing is an issue the industry is way behind on, and is a big issue for recreational players. more so than sharkscope

[rfgqqabc]

Lol was just going to quote so you couldn't delete, it was a very very good post, agreed with it all.

Felt a bit aggro in spots and im not in the mood to fight. Its in a word document. I've managed about 20 hours sleep since sunday so pretty nervous of coming across like a douche

[JGill_DTD]

Yeah, understood Pleno was getting at the fact that there are many more people with a strong understanding of NLHE than there is in regards to Omaha. Think more recs like to play this game (percentage wise) because it seems like a fun punt.

Main thing I agree with is putting the work in. Whilst there are plenty more regs out there (not sure if true but will presume there is), alot of them are struggling to keep up just through being a little lackadaisical. You may say it's shark eat shark but a huge amount of the so called sharks have gotten a little fat and fallen behind the game. It's all about mindset and being prepared to move on as the game moves on.

I feel pretty strongly about this because I pretty much run myself into the ground work wise, studying my game and reviewing hands/tourneys (in b4 get a life, exercise more etc. etc.). I don't regret a moment of it because I know it's improving my game considerably and gives me enough of an edge in general to justify playing for profit. It's probably harder to make a profit in the game now compared to a few years back or whatever, but in no way is it unachievable, definitely not if you treat it as a profession, purely because of the amount of people who treat it as a hobby.

[tikay]

edit: not got time, save it for later when i can check.

it was a good post

paragraphs!  :-)

fair policing of games is happening. i do it every night. i accept that chat box abuse/policing is an issue the industry is way behind on, and is a big issue for recreational players. more so than sharkscope

Agreed.

That does not mean we should ignore the lesser problems though. We should look at everything, positively & critically. Why would we not?

[Woodsey]

Tikay this is going to be a ridiculous example, please excuse the ridiculousness and hopefully you see the point:

I play football every Wednesday (obviously I don't, fat lad etc) whilst the imaginary wife and kids are in bed/watching a TV program from the mid 90s.

I just like to jump in and play for a couple of hours and have some crack, and it costs me about £50 to play because I actually pay for the pitch along with a couple of other lads.

Problem is though, I've never heard of football boots and Wayne Rooney turns up every week wearing the latest boots which, even though he's a better player than me anyway, really do further his advantage.

Anyway, I fluked one last week, top bin from 18 yards. But Wayne went mental with me. Saying I shouldn't shoot from that far because I'm super bad at football etc and I felt real bad that I'd paid my money to take this shit from him and his fucking boots.


Now. Should we ban football boots or tell Wayne not to be a dick to the guy who funds the game?

Sounds good, lets segregate the players into ability by division, premiership poker players only play each other and so on and so forth. Be nice if I could only play conference north players when I do play.  

[TightEnd]

edit: not got time, save it for later when i can check.

it was a good post

paragraphs!  :-)

fair policing of games is happening. i do it every night. i accept that chat box abuse/policing is an issue the industry is way behind on, and is a big issue for recreational players. more so than sharkscope

Agreed.

That does not mean we should ignore the lesser problems though. We should look at everything, positively & critically. Why would we not?

I agree with you, as you know. I know I speak to players who don't visit forums regularly, face to face, at DTD. Chat box problems come up constantly. Sharkscope and HUDs never

obviously some don't know about Sharkscope and HUDs, and everyone knows if they have suffered in a chat box.

You get my point though

[Doobs]

Too many people trying to sell cars ITT, not enough that sell aeroplanes.  But as Pleno says only lazy people learn about aeroplanes.

Tighty is right on the chat abuse, and I genuinely believe Sky has it worse than any other site I play on.  I think a lot of that is down to demographics.  Very experienced players and newbies don't usually get involved.  It is those in that phase where they think they know it all.  Sure most of us went through that phase too.

[BorntoBubble]

Too many people trying to sell cars ITT, not enough that sell aeroplanes.  But as Pleno says only lazy people learn about aeroplanes.

Tighty is right on the chat abuse, and I genuinely believe Sky has it worse than any other site I play on.  I think a lot of that is down to demographics.  Very experienced players and newbies don't usually get involved.  It is those in that phase where they think they know it all.  Sure most of us went through that phase too.

Agreed best advice i got was of people saying dont think you know it all etc. I always wondered why the winners were often the quietest yet the load ones often seem to get alll the bad beats coolers etc. Then i realised.

[titaniumbean]

Too many people trying to sell cars ITT, not enough that sell aeroplanes.  But as Pleno says only lazy people learn about aeroplanes.

Tighty is right on the chat abuse, and I genuinely believe Sky has it worse than any other site I play on.  I think a lot of that is down to demographics.  Very experienced players and newbies don't usually get involved.  It is those in that phase where they think they know it all.  Sure most of us went through that phase too.

+1 quintillion

I get called a 'cu*t' multiple times a session, maybe a valid name calling but it's meant to be propa nawty yet no one ever loses their chat.

However you can lose your chat for essentially pointing out the sites flaws and doing your utmost to improve it.


Really fun to have someone from that site telling us all these things that need to be looked at by those running poker sites whilst Sky is the epitome of everything wrong.