2014 World Cup Betting / Discussion thread

[TightEnd]

Why can't our young players learn there trade abroad like so many other nationalities do?

I don't think changing the premier league is the answer.

because young british players are paid so much more than young players in many other countries,and the transfer fees to get them would be prohibitive. foriegn feeder clubs and loans are an option, like united did with antwerp for example, but they are not easy to arrange.

it is also the case in many instances that their technical skills do not match their european counterparts, so why would a european team want to buy them?

we have a situation where the premier league is clogged up with overseas imports, a few world class but the majority not and the major clubs are hoarding youth talent and generally not playing it.

the cost of buying from abroad is much lower, and buying young english talent from the lower leagues attracts a premium

the premier league and the clubs are far too powerful and the FA structured in such an old fashioned way that the England national team is always going to be the poor relation in terms of performance

[horseplayer]

I agree the players aren't good enough.
The Premier League is to blame imo. I think the ratio is 30% English players to 70% foreign and falling.
The Irish team has similarly suffered as the Premier league has grown. We used to have Pool players, Man United players, Chelsea players etc. Now we have lower Prem players and Championship players. 
Soon England won't be qualifying for tournaments at all.

This

great post the irish point is a great one the player pool is diminishing every year, when the pool diminishes so does the quality.

[kinboshi]

It's not the manager. His extraordinary record proves that. It's the players.

England has had three of the best managers in the world in recent years but, despite their skills, none of them has been able to really make it work in international championships for one simple reason - the players they have been given just haven't been as good as the players from several other countries.

Unless they can attract someone like Scolari or Hiddink, England's best option is to stick with Hodgson.

Please tell me this is a sarcastic post.

[kinboshi]

Hodgson hasn't won anything outside the Scandinavian leagues. Hardly an extraordinary record!

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/11/roys-hodgsons-managerial-record/

It's not just the results, it's his approach and his strategy. Awful to watch and aims at mediocrity.

He seems to be suggesting we were just unlucky? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27951796

[horseplayer]

shud have chosen 'arry

[kinboshi]

shud have chosen 'arry

Again, another extraordinary record. Why not go the whole distance and get Moyes in?

[horseplayer]

Ok so if not Hodgson who?

I cant see a lot of options certainly cant see any young english managers who would want nor any top class foreign ones who would either.

[kinboshi]

For a start, they don't have to be English.

How much fun would it be to have Alex Ferguson in charge for a tournament? 

[horseplayer]

I have a flyer for next manager if Roy was to leave (doubtful)

Not even quoted at present

[horseplayer]

Cahill did one superb piece of play in the Uruguay game.

He made a good tackle and rather than punt it aimlessly ala Jags or pass it to Henderson or Gerrard for them to dwell on he took the ball out of defence and fed an excellent pass which led to a great chance.

He does this regularly for Chelsea, i dont believe for a second he had been told not to bring the ball out (on occasion) i can only assume the reason he resisted doing it more was the worry about making an error which led to England going out.

Which is a bit ironic after what happened later.

[arbboy]

There is no manager in the world who is skilled enough to make disinterested players want to do something they don't really want to put 110% into (which is required to be successful) do.  Players like Crouch, Carroll and Carrick hardly look glum about missing out on the WC this summer as they are pap'd around the world in exotic locations with huge smiles on their faces as they relax in the glamour capitals of the world with their WAG's.  If you could get them to secretly admit the truth i am sure all 3 would be over the moon they were not selected so they can rest all summer and extend their club playing careers by an additional year or two.  In turn increasing the thing which really motivates them in the modern game, $$$$.  The concept of 'retiring' from international football is another very modern idea which didn't exist a generation ago yet now is just an excuse to focus on making money ahead of the desire/pride of representing your country.

The argument that the EPL costs England a chance of winning the world cup is also poppycock.  It gets rolled out every 4 years but the bottom line is there are only 22 England players needed for the squad.  All 22 get the opportunity to play week in week out against the greatest players in the world in the EPL and are used to playing against the best talent in the world much more so than more successful England sides in the past (1986/90).  The best English players if talented enough to make the national side will always rise to the top.  If they don't their talent is never going to be enough to make it at a world class international level anyway.

[Ironside]

Why can't our young players learn there trade abroad like so many other nationalities do?

I don't think changing the premier league is the answer.

only league that wants them is spl but you think the FA want to ho back to the days when gazza Stevens etc were playing for rangers

[kinboshi]

Cahill did one superb piece of play in the Uruguay game.

He made a good tackle and rather than punt it aimlessly ala Jags or pass it to Henderson or Gerrard for them to dwell on he took the ball out of defence and fed an excellent pass which led to a great chance.

He does this regularly for Chelsea, i dont believe for a second he had been told not to bring the ball out (on occasion) i can only assume the reason he resisted doing it more was the worry about making an error which led to England going out.

Which is a bit ironic after what happened later.

It's interesting you bring that up, because at Liverpool Hodgson actually instructed the players to "hoof" the ball out of defence instead of playing possession football and trying to work it out of defence.

There was an interesting infographic showing Reina's distribution in a game compared to exactly the same fixture a year later under Hodgson. Basically, it went from short, accurate passes to big "hoofs" down the field, bypassing the midfield. There was no surprise to see the lack of possession Liverpool enjoyed under Hodgson, and also the lack of results.

I don't think it was a coincidence.

[MintTrav]

It's not the manager. His extraordinary record proves that. It's the players.

England has had three of the best managers in the world in recent years but, despite their skills, none of them has been able to really make it work in international championships for one simple reason - the players they have been given just haven't been as good as the players from several other countries.

Unless they can attract someone like Scolari or Hiddink, England's best option is to stick with Hodgson.

Please tell me this is a sarcastic post.

You're a bitter Liverpool supporter with a blind spot regarding Hodgson. Winning the World Cup would not convince you that he is a good manager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson

[horseplayer]

i would be tempted to agree with that however a bit of delving...

46% and 63% of the ball against Italy and Uruguay are certainly not indicators of a side who dont keep the ball though and i didnt see many long balls aimed forward at all (excluding the obligatory sg 60 yard "pass")

Infact both the betting markets for England possession were over the spread quoted.