2014 World Cup Betting / Discussion thread

[kinboshi]

It's not the manager. His extraordinary record proves that. It's the players.

England has had three of the best managers in the world in recent years but, despite their skills, none of them has been able to really make it work in international championships for one simple reason - the players they have been given just haven't been as good as the players from several other countries.

Unless they can attract someone like Scolari or Hiddink, England's best option is to stick with Hodgson.

Please tell me this is a sarcastic post.

You're a bitter Liverpool supporter with a blind spot regarding Hodgson. Winning the World Cup would not convince you that he is a good manager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson

Not bitter at all, was objective when he arrived and supported him fully when he started at Liverpool despite any doubts. He did nothing to relieve these doubts, in fact he reinforced them.

But he did a cracking job in this world cup, and I take it all back. Give him the job for life...

[kinboshi]

Can a fan of any top-flight team honestly tell me they'd want Hodgson to come in and manage them? He'd probably do a decent job with someone like Villa (no insult to Villa intended) and get them playing a style of pragmatic football helping them avoid relegation. He's not completely useless, obviously. He's just not very good.

[kinboshi]

i would be tempted to agree with that however a bit of delving...

46% and 63% of the ball against Italy and Uruguay are certainly not indicators of a side who dont keep the ball though and i didnt see many long balls aimed forward at all (excluding the obligatory sg 60 yard "pass")

Infact both the betting markets for England possession were over the spread quoted.

My point was about how he set Liverpool up to play. It was neither pretty nor effective.

I thought going forward England were set up pretty well, and in bursts played some nice stuff. Without the defensive errors we deserved at least a draw. We did tend to counter-attack too slowly though, and third rendered the benefit the England side has in terms of pace obsolete.

Against Uruguay, the attack was more disjointed. Good players looked very poor at times, and these are players we've seen play some very good attacking football in the league this season.

The players aren't absolved of all the blame of course. But in my opinion, there's a reason these players underperformed, and it's not that they didn't care because they're more interested in money than winning with England.

[kinboshi]

Messi scores in injury time to break Iran's hearts.

[MANTIS01]

When we scored the equaliser against Uruguay the game was there to be won. England were pressing high up the pitch and had all the momentum. Then we foul throw and give possession back, nicely relieving the pressure on our opponents. We made several individual errors like that and it cost us dear. I don't know what causes players not to throw-in properly during a vital world cup match but I don't think it's anything to do with Roy.

Our back four simply aren't world class, too many individual errors, our midfield is far from world class (how on earth has Henderson snuck into the strarting 11?), and strikers? Well we don't have a Luis Suarez do we? We switch off, we get sloppy, we have no quality in the final third. I think we have very high expectations of magic man Woy Hodgson if we think he should be making this shower of shite shine on the world stage. I mean why is Glenn Johnson backing away from Cavani for the first goal? That's Edinson Cavani Glenn! He's quite dangerous in space.

[arbboy]

Will England take the 3rd game seriously and play their 'first' 11 as per the first two games?

[mulhuzz]

Will England take the 3rd game seriously and play their 'first' 11 as per the first two games?

Almost no chance of that, I suspect.

[pleno1]

lol

henderson would be in every national team bar maybe germany/spain and even then ckise

[arbboy]

lol

henderson would be in every national team bar maybe germany/spain and even then ckise

What you been drinking tonight?  You sure?  Hendo 1.01 to make the argie starting 11?

[TightEnd]

Lol.

[Tal]

lol

henderson would be in every national team bar maybe germany/spain and even then ckise

Jordan Henderson??! You've seen the games so far, right?

Oh hang on. Misread that.

You mean he'd be in every national team bar, as in pub. Fair enough. Apologies.

What happens if we lose to Costa Rica?

- Hodgson goes (FA will be under insurmountable pressure from the press and know it alls)
- Gerrard retires (bizarre phenomenon, retiring)
- Rooney becomes captain
- Mourinho approached, laughs uncontrollably and declines.
- Ian Holloway gets support from The Sun and goes odds on to get the job?

[mulhuzz]

lol

henderson would be in every national team bar maybe germany/spain and even then ckise

I'll concentrate on Germany because that's the team I know most about.

He'd be about 15th in a list of midfielders for the German team. That's not close. Wouldn't be anywhere near it.

[Ironside]

lol

henderson would be in every national team bar maybe germany/spain and even then ckise

I'll concentrate on Germany because that's the team I know most about.

He'd be about 15th in a list of midfielders for the German team. That's not close. Wouldn't be anywhere near it.

ffs he would be 2nd choice for the scottish team behind fletcher

[arbboy]

lol

henderson would be in every national team bar maybe germany/spain and even then ckise

Those breezers must taste good tonight before you focus and bink 17 Sunday majors online tomorrow night!!

[pleno1]

really guys? lol

usa - yes definitely
portugal - yes definitely
belgium - pretty close between him and witsel
russia - yes
south korea - yes
algeria - yes
cameroon - yes
brazil - yes imo, others will say no but both brazil cms dont get a game for their club teams
croatia - yes
mexico - yes
australia - yes
spain - probably not like i said, although they are ageing, by next year he definitely would
netherlands - yes
chile - yes
greece - yes
ivory coast - yes
japan - yes
colombia - yes
costa rica - yes
england - yes
uruguay - yes
italy - i guess pirlo/de rossi go ahead of him
ecuador - yes
france - yes
honduras - yes
switzerland - yes
bosnia - yes
iran - yes
argentina - yes
nigeria - yes

so out of 32 i would say probably 27ish are definites. im not so sure what is so lol about it.

lol

henderson would be in every national team bar maybe germany/spain and even then ckise

Jordan Henderson??! You've seen the games so far, right?

Oh hang on. Misread that.

You mean he'd be in every national team bar, as in pub. Fair enough. Apologies.

yes did you?

football isnt all about doing tricks or what looks good to casual fans. for midfielders you need to have somebody with an engine and that is more all round, see why ghana overpowered germany and their 15 better midfielders than jordan henderson, why costa rica overpowered italy and why spain were very unsuccessful.

england had gerrard next to him playing too deep and doing the same role, we needed somebody in gerrards position to supply the balls to our forwards not sit deep aswell, we kept the ball ok but we didnt pass through teams like pirlo did vs us in game 1.

How the media thought he played

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27853470

"Fine first half and understandably tired as the second half went on. Great energy in these conditions."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2014/england-vs-italy-player-ratings-3652878

Worked really hard, broke up play and got forward. Also had a searing shot brilliantly saved by Italy keeper Sirigu.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2097171-england-vs-italy-world-cup-group-d-score-grades-and-post-match-reaction

good overall score, higher than verrati and as high as de rossi who being on a winning team will naturally get higher points.

So from the first game where you were so vocal about him the general consensus of the press who have previously given him a tough time is that he did well, with an above average performance and did as well or better than the italy midfield.


Uruguay game

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/19/uruguay-england-world-cup-group-d-ratings
A neat and tidy enough performance against opponents that pressed hard in midfield. A couple of telling interceptions

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/worldcup/england-vs-uruguay-match-report-world-cup-2014-luis-suarez-puts-england-on-the-brink-of-exit-despite-wayne-rooneys-first-world-cup-strike-in-21-loss-9550474.html
Ran hard without the ball but failed to make much of a contribution going forward as England lacked ideas in the middle of the pitch.

Key stat from this game is that...

Key stat: Jordan Henderson made more passes (61) than any other player on either side.

So whilst he is perhaps not driving us forward, he made more passes than Gerrard and ran hard and worked very well.

He has been very good all season for Liverpool being one of the reasons they have done so well, I think hes also been tipped by many as a future Liverpool captain. He made 35 appearences in the league and was chosen for basically every game, he was sent off late in the season when they were chasing one of the title matches and many said with him they may have done better and they started to underperform when he was out of the team. The goals they concede without Hendo in the team is double of that when he is in the team, he is a really good defensive midfielder

In this article where he was tipped as 3rd for Liverpools player of the year ahead of Sturridge/Sterling/Coutinho etc you can see he was not a sub in any game and was only substituted once in the whole season, for a centre midfielder very impressive.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2014/05/14/4817066/who-is-liverpools-player-of-the-season?ICID=PP_25258


"It is hard to quantify the influence of Henderson over the season as his impact has often been to provide different things at different times. With Gerrard sidelined in the winter it was Henderson who shouldered creative responsibility from midfield, providing a vital link to the attack and urging Liverpool on with promptings from the centre circle and sparking what were arguably the season’s two best performances: at White Hart Lane and the Etihad Stadium.

During Liverpool’s blistering run into the business end of the season, Henderson constantly provided the unstylish but crucial service of pressing high and passing simple. It is no understatement to say that many Anfield regulars fully expect – and would be supremely pleased to see – Henderson take the captain’s armband once Gerrard finally decides to relinquish it. He has been a quiet revelation this season."

Football is all about opinions, i dont necessarily think that you have to play football to understand certain parts of football, but there is definitely some truth in it. When the world cup comes around people sensationalize everything and only see world cups, back heels and bad refereeing decisions.

The fact is with his form over the last 1 year, every team in the world cup would have taken him to Brazil and he would be starting for the majority of them.