UK General Election 2015

[simonnatur]

Isn't the point about Eastern European "guest workers" that even degree educated engineers and architects, if they lack opportunities in their own countries, may find it attractive to work for a year or two in this country even in a low skill job in order to accumulate some capital before returning?
It's obviously not going to work in reverse for low skilled UK citizens because of the vast differential in wage levels.

[taximan007]

This is my opinion fwiw. British people tend to be very picky when it comes to work, there is a culture of "I am trained to do this or I am educated to this level therefore I will not take a job I believe to be beneath me". I've said it before on other threads there is a big difference between saying I want to work and HAVING to work. Here in Guernsey I can honestly say when we advertise a job we get 99% of the time ZERO local applicants!

This is the reason we have a high proportion of foreign workers here a lot of whom are highly qualified in their own countries but will take jobs here in housekeeping, kitchen porters etc not only for the minimum wage offered but to improve the English also, I love working with these people because I learn so much from them about their cultures etc and I have the utmost respect for them coming to a completely new country with little or no English language but prepared to try and better themselves.

I always remember when I returned to the UK in 2008 and HAD to work, I was in an employment agency in Nottingham with 5 other men, 2 English around my age and 3 Polish lads in their 20's and we were all offered work in a factory earning minimum wage, myself and the Polish lads jumped at the offer, the 2 other Englishmen turned their noses up in disgust and walked out.....about summed it up for me.......

[RickBFA]

This is my opinion fwiw. British people tend to be very picky when it comes to work, there is a culture of "I am trained to do this or I am educated to this level therefore I will not take a job I believe to be beneath me". I've said it before on other threads there is a big difference between saying I want to work and HAVING to work. Here in Guernsey I can honestly say when we advertise a job we get 99% of the time ZERO local applicants!

This is the reason we have a high proportion of foreign workers here a lot of whom are highly qualified in their own countries but will take jobs here in housekeeping, kitchen porters etc not only for the minimum wage offered but to improve the English also, I love working with these people because I learn so much from them about their cultures etc and I have the utmost respect for them coming to a completely new country with little or no English language but prepared to try and better themselves.

I always remember when I returned to the UK in 2008 and HAD to work, I was in an employment agency in Nottingham with 5 other men, 2 English around my age and 3 Polish lads in their 20's and we were all offered work in a factory earning minimum wage, myself and the Polish lads jumped at the offer, the 2 other Englishmen turned their noses up in disgust and walked out.....about summed it up for me.......

That's the issue.

You have to respect the Polish etc for being willing to work.

Whilst the vast majority of British people are hard working, we definitely have a problem with a small but significant percentage of people who are not prepared to start on the bottom rung of the ladder and work their way up.

There is no doubt that this attitude of entitlement increased under the welfare system under Blair and Brown.

I have seen this on numerous occasions with young British guys especially who would rather not work and claim benefits. I had a young guy in a house I owned, he was intelligent and could easily have got a job. Unless the job paid minimum £8.50 per hour, he wasn't interested. He didn't have the experience or job skills to get that so he sat on his backside.

I played football a few years ago with 3 lads who used to laugh at me working my bollocks off, whilst they claimed benefits, worked odd days for cash on the black market and had a better lifestyle than me at the time.

The number of employers I meet who tell me it is almost impossible to get local British born people to start at the bottom of their business and work up the ladder is scary.

Hopefully the culture is changing, it certainly needs to.

[arbboy]

This is IDS's legacy over the next 5 years to sort this issue out.  I wish him all the best.  It will not be easy changing this ever growing culture.

[Woodsey]

This is my opinion fwiw. British people tend to be very picky when it comes to work, there is a culture of "I am trained to do this or I am educated to this level therefore I will not take a job I believe to be beneath me". I've said it before on other threads there is a big difference between saying I want to work and HAVING to work. Here in Guernsey I can honestly say when we advertise a job we get 99% of the time ZERO local applicants!

This is the reason we have a high proportion of foreign workers here a lot of whom are highly qualified in their own countries but will take jobs here in housekeeping, kitchen porters etc not only for the minimum wage offered but to improve the English also, I love working with these people because I learn so much from them about their cultures etc and I have the utmost respect for them coming to a completely new country with little or no English language but prepared to try and better themselves.

I always remember when I returned to the UK in 2008 and HAD to work, I was in an employment agency in Nottingham with 5 other men, 2 English around my age and 3 Polish lads in their 20's and we were all offered work in a factory earning minimum wage, myself and the Polish lads jumped at the offer, the 2 other Englishmen turned their noses up in disgust and walked out.....about summed it up for me.......

Lazy fucks, if they were on benefits they should have them stopped.

[david3103]

This is my opinion fwiw. British people tend to be very picky when it comes to work, there is a culture of "I am trained to do this or I am educated to this level therefore I will not take a job I believe to be beneath me". I've said it before on other threads there is a big difference between saying I want to work and HAVING to work. Here in Guernsey I can honestly say when we advertise a job we get 99% of the time ZERO local applicants!

This is the reason we have a high proportion of foreign workers here a lot of whom are highly qualified in their own countries but will take jobs here in housekeeping, kitchen porters etc not only for the minimum wage offered but to improve the English also, I love working with these people because I learn so much from them about their cultures etc and I have the utmost respect for them coming to a completely new country with little or no English language but prepared to try and better themselves.

I always remember when I returned to the UK in 2008 and HAD to work, I was in an employment agency in Nottingham with 5 other men, 2 English around my age and 3 Polish lads in their 20's and we were all offered work in a factory earning minimum wage, myself and the Polish lads jumped at the offer, the 2 other Englishmen turned their noses up in disgust and walked out.....about summed it up for me.......

Lazy fucks, if they were on benefits they should have them stopped.

If they were on JSA then taking a few days work would be likely to get their benefits stopped. A lot of people on JSA would love to take work when it's offered, but the truth is that it is financially -ve to unless you have some certainty of the work lasting for at least a few months.

[Woodsey]

This is my opinion fwiw. British people tend to be very picky when it comes to work, there is a culture of "I am trained to do this or I am educated to this level therefore I will not take a job I believe to be beneath me". I've said it before on other threads there is a big difference between saying I want to work and HAVING to work. Here in Guernsey I can honestly say when we advertise a job we get 99% of the time ZERO local applicants!

This is the reason we have a high proportion of foreign workers here a lot of whom are highly qualified in their own countries but will take jobs here in housekeeping, kitchen porters etc not only for the minimum wage offered but to improve the English also, I love working with these people because I learn so much from them about their cultures etc and I have the utmost respect for them coming to a completely new country with little or no English language but prepared to try and better themselves.

I always remember when I returned to the UK in 2008 and HAD to work, I was in an employment agency in Nottingham with 5 other men, 2 English around my age and 3 Polish lads in their 20's and we were all offered work in a factory earning minimum wage, myself and the Polish lads jumped at the offer, the 2 other Englishmen turned their noses up in disgust and walked out.....about summed it up for me.......

Lazy fucks, if they were on benefits they should have them stopped.

If they were on JSA then taking a few days work would be likely to get their benefits stopped. A lot of people on JSA would love to take work when it's offered, but the truth is that it is financially -ve to unless you have some certainty of the work lasting for at least a few months.

There are plenty of factory jobs in Nottingham around the Lenton/Queens drive industrial estate areas mate, I know a few people who work there and there are nearly always jobs going and would get min 4 days work a week. Some would simply rather stay on benefits rather than work, I don't give a shit about the -ev aspect of it really, take the job or lose the benefits, everyone needs to contribute rather than take.

[TightEnd]

[TightEnd]

:-)

[DMorgan]

There are plenty of factory jobs in Nottingham around the Lenton/Queens drive industrial estate areas mate, I know a few people who work there and there are nearly always jobs going and would get min 4 days work a week. Some would simply rather stay on benefits rather than work, I don't give a shit about the -ev aspect of it really, take the job or lose the benefits, everyone needs to contribute rather than take.

While I don't disagree with you, it does present an interesting scenario where the poorest are expected to set aside their own best interests and act with compassion towards those higher in the social order.

I'm not sure that has really 'worked out' in human history

[DMorgan]

:-)

Such a shame that he's retiring from the show

[Jon MW]

There are plenty of factory jobs in Nottingham around the Lenton/Queens drive industrial estate areas mate, I know a few people who work there and there are nearly always jobs going and would get min 4 days work a week. Some would simply rather stay on benefits rather than work, I don't give a shit about the -ev aspect of it really, take the job or lose the benefits, everyone needs to contribute rather than take.

While I don't disagree with you, it does present an interesting scenario where the poorest are expected to set aside their own best interests and act with compassion towards those higher in the social order.

I'm not sure that has really 'worked out' in human history

In the short term it might be -ev to take a job rather than stay on benefits - but in the long term it will only stay -ev if you basically make no effort and never advance.

So it requires them to act in their own self interest, but to be able to see past the next year or two when doing so.

[DMorgan]

There are plenty of factory jobs in Nottingham around the Lenton/Queens drive industrial estate areas mate, I know a few people who work there and there are nearly always jobs going and would get min 4 days work a week. Some would simply rather stay on benefits rather than work, I don't give a shit about the -ev aspect of it really, take the job or lose the benefits, everyone needs to contribute rather than take.

While I don't disagree with you, it does present an interesting scenario where the poorest are expected to set aside their own best interests and act with compassion towards those higher in the social order.

I'm not sure that has really 'worked out' in human history

In the short term it might be -ev to take a job rather than stay on benefits - but in the long term it will only stay -ev if you basically make no effort and never advance.

So it requires them to act in their own self interest, but to be able to see past the next year or two when doing so.

Yeah of course, but thats where the 'get a job you lazy bastard' narrative falls down. Its not exactly inspiring people to make short term sacrifices for longer term gains.

Encouragingly though I think that we are making some steps in the right direction, getting more apprenticeships and training into the system to help people to see a longer term career path rather than just cutting peoples money to the point where they work or go hungry. A system built on belligerence doesn't appear to be working very well at tackling the more stubborn long term and youth unemployment issues. A more positive and aspiration based system has worked well for the middle classes, mainly getting more people into universities. A similar approach with lower skilled people I think has a decent shot at being as effective if its implemented well. Obviously thats a monumentally complex task and easier said than done though...

[david3103]

There are plenty of factory jobs in Nottingham around the Lenton/Queens drive industrial estate areas mate, I know a few people who work there and there are nearly always jobs going and would get min 4 days work a week. Some would simply rather stay on benefits rather than work, I don't give a shit about the -ev aspect of it really, take the job or lose the benefits, everyone needs to contribute rather than take.

While I don't disagree with you, it does present an interesting scenario where the poorest are expected to set aside their own best interests and act with compassion towards those higher in the social order.

I'm not sure that has really 'worked out' in human history

In the short term it might be -ev to take a job rather than stay on benefits - but in the long term it will only stay -ev if you basically make no effort and never advance.

So it requires them to act in their own self interest, but to be able to see past the next year or two when doing so.

The state can encourage them to take that step by making it possible for people to take short term jobs without impact on their immediate financial situation. Make it neutral in EV terms, rather than negative. Deduct the income from benefits by all means but stop assuming that because someone earnt £200 last week they are going to earn the same or more next week.

The benefit system is based on a model that assumes stable employment, that's inappropriate now. Have Zero Hours Contracts if you must, but reflect their use in a system that uses up to date information to make work worthwhile. PAYE info is updated live these days, it shouldn't be that hard to do.

[DungBeetle]

There are plenty of factory jobs in Nottingham around the Lenton/Queens drive industrial estate areas mate, I know a few people who work there and there are nearly always jobs going and would get min 4 days work a week. Some would simply rather stay on benefits rather than work, I don't give a shit about the -ev aspect of it really, take the job or lose the benefits, everyone needs to contribute rather than take.

While I don't disagree with you, it does present an interesting scenario where the poorest are expected to set aside their own best interests and act with compassion towards those higher in the social order.

I'm not sure that has really 'worked out' in human history

In the short term it might be -ev to take a job rather than stay on benefits - but in the long term it will only stay -ev if you basically make no effort and never advance.

So it requires them to act in their own self interest, but to be able to see past the next year or two when doing so.

The state can encourage them to take that step by making it possible for people to take short term jobs without impact on their immediate financial situation. Make it neutral in EV terms, rather than negative. Deduct the income from benefits by all means but stop assuming that because someone earnt £200 last week they are going to earn the same or more next week.

The benefit system is based on a model that assumes stable employment, that's inappropriate now. Have Zero Hours Contracts if you must, but reflect their use in a system that uses up to date information to make work worthwhile. PAYE info is updated live these days, it shouldn't be that hard to do.

A very sensible suggestion imo.