Ched Evans

[The Camel]

Mark, players are role models because football clubs market themselves as socially responsible members of the community. They actively market their product to families and point to their star players as role models to kids, doing community work in schools, hospitals etc.

The star players on a kids football team are the people that they admire. This becomes even more of a problem at a club like Hartlepool where Evans would undoubtedly be their main man. Fair enough these aren't huge clubs we're talking about and he's not gunna be all over the 9 o'clock news but it sets a precedent that people in positions of responsibility can commit horrible crimes and walk back into their role without even finishing their sentence.

Lots of people are pointing at the fact that he's a footballer and saying that he's being victimised for being successful,wealthy etc. and that people want one rule for footballers and another for everyone else, but I think that its completely the other way round. I'd have exactly the same opinion about anyone else in the public eye returning to a position of responsibility. By allowing Evans to play professional football in the UK again I think we'd be carving out a special exemption for football, one that sends a damaging message that if you're a TV presenter/insert marginally famous profession here and you commit a sexual offence you're gone but if you're a footballer its alright you don't even have to finish your sentence, as long as you can score goals you're good to go.

That's fine if you have that view.  My question is where do you draw the line on being a role model?  At what level can a footballer commit a rape and carry on playing when he has served his sentence?

As a parent you don't get to choose your children's heroes or role models.

You can try to steer them the right way, but basically they choose their own.

At the moment Jake idolises his football coach. He seems like a decent bloke and I'm cool with it.

But what if I wasn't?

I couldn't take him away from the team where all his mates go. That would cause a riot.

[horseplayer]

Having seen Pat Sharp in Magaluf about 10 years ago djing (yes really) that night he had at least 50 girls/women all good looking basically begging to shag him

Cant imagine it is any less for a footballer probably a lot more. Also sure girls do text/tweet saying "bagged one" infact there are a whole group of "women" who specifically target footballers in clubs presumably for that reason.

[The Camel]

Having seen Pat Sharp in Magaluf about 10 years ago djing (yes really) that night he had at least 50 girls/women all good looking basically begging to shag him

Cant imagine it is any less for a footballer probably a lot more. Also sure girls do text/tweet saying "bagged one" infact there are a whole group of "women" who specifically target footballers in clubs presumably for that reason.

Maybe so, but the treatment is very different once the man or woman in question is "bagged".

Don't think I've heard of a woman posting revenge porn or inviting a mate to join in for a threesome without the guys consent.

[arbboy]

Having seen Pat Sharp in Magaluf about 10 years ago djing (yes really) that night he had at least 50 girls/women all good looking basically begging to shag him

Cant imagine it is any less for a footballer probably a lot more. Also sure girls do text/tweet saying "bagged one" infact there are a whole group of "women" who specifically target footballers in clubs presumably for that reason.

Maybe so, but the treatment is very different once the man or woman in question is "bagged".

Don't think I've heard of a woman posting revenge porn or inviting a mate to join in for a threesome without the guys consent.

I think you need to get out a little bit more Keith in the nicest possible way of course!  In a lot of cases women can be worse than men when it comes to this sort of stuff.  How many kiss and tell characters in the gutter press are male?

The bing brother celeb culture of the last 15 years has a lot to answer for as do Jordan kerry katona etc. I shudder to think what it must be like to be a dad and here your daughter say she wants to grow up and be like Jordan

[horseplayer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1250360/My-nights-wannabe-WAGs-ashamed-sex.html

Very worryingly how many presumably younger girls are asking on google questions "Were do i find footballers on a night out?" and "How do i increase my chances of being a WAG?"

Not that i am stating in this case this was the thought process just think it is very wrong to think it does not happen

[DMorgan]

aaaaand we've reached it

Have fun guys, I'm out

[arbboy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1250360/My-nights-wannabe-WAGs-ashamed-sex.html

Very worryingly how many presumably younger girls are asking on google questions "Were do i find footballers on a night out?" and "How do i increase my chances of being a WAG?"

Not that i am stating in this case this was the thought process just think it is very wrong to think it does not happen

that article is five years old as well it certainly hasn't got any better since then. 

[The Camel]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1250360/My-nights-wannabe-WAGs-ashamed-sex.html

Very worryingly how many presumably younger girls are asking on google questions "Were do i find footballers on a night out?" and "How do i increase my chances of being a WAG?"

Not that i am stating in this case this was the thought process just think it is very wrong to think it does not happen

that article is five years old as well it certainly hasn't got any better since then. 

Anyway, just because a woman is desperate to get hold of a celeb boyfriend, does that give the celeb free license to treat her like absolute shit?

Just ordered this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Night-Games-Sex-Power-Sport/dp/1863956018

Suggests sportsmen treating women like pieces of meat isn't purely a British phenomenom.

[scotty77]

Dunno why some of these scenarios are being brought into this.  

FWIW when this was first circulating on twitter I was of the opinion that he should be allowed to play.

Then I read about the actual details of the case and I think he should at least fulfil the full term of his sentence before being allowed to return to playing.

However this case has shown how ridiculous twitter and social media has become, plus the club sponsors threatening to pull out is ridic too.  A lot of the bloggers from sites like the Huffington Post clearly know nothing about football and are painting him as someone who has as much influence as David Beckham. I can't see how he will be anyones role model. Numbers that are thrown about like '30k have signed this petition' really have no relevance IMO.

The strangest thing in this entire case IMO is the GF and her family standing by him/looking to bankroll his moves to the clubs.  Very odd indeed.

[arbboy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1250360/My-nights-wannabe-WAGs-ashamed-sex.html

Very worryingly how many presumably younger girls are asking on google questions "Were do i find footballers on a night out?" and "How do i increase my chances of being a WAG?"

Not that i am stating in this case this was the thought process just think it is very wrong to think it does not happen

that article is five years old as well it certainly hasn't got any better since then.  

Anyway, just because a woman is desperate to get hold of a celeb boyfriend, does that give the celeb free license to treat her like absolute shit?

Just ordered this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Night-Games-Sex-Power-Sport/dp/1863956018

Suggests sportsmen treating women like pieces of meat isn't purely a British phenomenom.

Course it isn't a uk or modern phenomenon. Certain sections of society have operated like this since time began. Men use power and money to get sex and women use sex to get money and power within these circles. Nothing will ever change with these types.  Obviously the vast majority of human beings have no interest operating in these circles.

[horseplayer]

Do not see why it is that strange myself. Would not be the first time someone has stood by a partner after a rape conviction. She obviously feels she knows him and that he is telling her the truth.

She is a good looking woman has a rich father so i am sure would have no problems finding someone equally high profile if she had to/wanted to

[Marky147]

Do not see why it is that strange myself. Would not be the first time someone has stood by a partner after a rape conviction. She obviously feels she knows him and that he is telling her the truth.

She is a good looking woman has a rich father so i am sure would have no problems finding someone equally high profile if she had to/wanted to

I didn't rape her, we just had a threesome...

[horseplayer]

Do not see why it is that strange myself. Would not be the first time someone has stood by a partner after a rape conviction. She obviously feels she knows him and that he is telling her the truth.

She is a good looking woman has a rich father so i am sure would have no problems finding someone equally high profile if she had to/wanted to

I didn't rape her, we just had a threesome...

She obviously believes that, how many men or women forgive cheating partners? Thousands every year

[david3103]

“The arguments against Ched Evans playing again are so vacuous as to be beyond parody” Rod Liddle:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9410182/the-utterly-ludicrous-and-petty-campaign-against-ched-evans/

This bit really incensed me.

"One of the ironies is that the people who have signed these various petitions are more usually lenient on the issue of criminal justice — unless it is a crime to which they particularly object. Burglary, armed robbery, manslaughter, drug dealing etc. — they’re OK. Crimes against women and any racist stuff — nope, no rehabilitation, you’re scum and that’s that."

Because of course sex crimes are different to all the others he mentions. That's why sex offenders have to sign a register after they are released. That's why they aren't allowed to work in certain professions.

Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised a man who has a caution for domestic violence on his partner has no idea why a sex crime is different to all those others.

Using Twitter as a guide is pretty random, because people only talk about stuff which interests them.

But I would guess roughly the split over whether Evans should be allowed to play now is roughly 50:50 amongst men. Maybe even a small majority support his aim.

But amongst women I would say it is more like 10:1 against him returning to football.

No matter how much empathy we have or how hard we try, I think it is virtually impossible to know exactly how women feel about rape.

That was the bit I thought unnecessary in the article too.

That's what I meant about Evans having the chance to make a difference.

The whole case has highlighted the way a lot of young men objectify women and treat them like dirt.

Could you imagine a woman picking up a bloke at a kebab shop, taking him back to a Premier Inn and while they are in a taxi texting her mate "I've got a bloke" and her turning up expecting to join in (while two other women are trying to video the action)?

He *could* have been a positive role model for change, telling his story to adolescent boys, youth team footballers and explaining why what he did he was wrong, and why the "lad culture" should change.

I'm not saying he should have done that, but he could have. And if he had, we might truly have seen a rehabilitation and eventually acceptance back into football.

This is where it all gets messy tho Keith, the girl approached the guy in the street, he didn't set out to 'target 'her. The phrase 'I've got a bird' means 'I've pulled' doesn't it?

If he was having sex with a girl in a hotel room and his friend was trying to video it thru the window why is he responsible for that? He didn't go to the room saying I'm going to rape this girl, why don't you record it lads' did he?

How can someone on the sex offenders register visit youth team footballers or speak to young people about these things?

If he is guilty then he doesn't deserve any benefit but the responsibility for a suspected sex crime has all fallen on him. He might be guilty but the evidence doesn't prove that and at the other end of the scale he might have simply had sex with a girl that was too intoxicated to remember consenting (remember, the night porter who was listening at the door confirmed he heard the girl request a sex act to be performed on her at the time). It is just such a wide chasm between those two things that it looks a really big call to make given the lack of evidence of rape.

He is guilty. A jury of his peers decided that after a fair trial. Indeed, his trial was so fair that the Appeal courts decided not to allow an appeal.

Did you read the www.footylaw page that Tighty linked to?

[The Camel]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1250360/My-nights-wannabe-WAGs-ashamed-sex.html

Very worryingly how many presumably younger girls are asking on google questions "Were do i find footballers on a night out?" and "How do i increase my chances of being a WAG?"

Not that i am stating in this case this was the thought process just think it is very wrong to think it does not happen

that article is five years old as well it certainly hasn't got any better since then.  

Anyway, just because a woman is desperate to get hold of a celeb boyfriend, does that give the celeb free license to treat her like absolute shit?

Just ordered this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Night-Games-Sex-Power-Sport/dp/1863956018

Suggests sportsmen treating women like pieces of meat isn't purely a British phenomenom.

Course it isn't a uk or modern phenomenon. Certain sections of society have operated like this since time began. Men use power and money to get sex and women use sex to get money and power within these circles. Nothing will ever change with these types.  Obviously the vast majority of human beings have no interest operating in these circles.

Well, why can't this case be a turning point?

Most men don't treat women this way, why do we tolerate the few that do?

Even if Evans isn't a rapist (I think he is but I suppose we can wait for the last appeal for absolute confirmation) he is certainly guilty of being a vile human being. Leaving a drunk girl alone in a hotel room, naked, with no phone, money or possessions is descipable behaviour.

Don't just teach young footballers how to hit an inswinging corner or deal with a long ball.

Teach them about relationships and sex and how to treat women.

It's amazing it doesn't happen already, they are plucked from their schools at a ridiclously young age and don't get to learn the life skills most kids learn.