The TEMPORARY Nuts - First Hand.......

[Longy]

Yeah if you stick in qq instead of qj of clubs your ev shoots up to a massive 33% making it the correct call. So yes if 2 of them have the same draw (to house up or flush up) the maths goes back in your favour

[tikay]

I gotta say, I'm LOVING this.

We began with "no-brainer - auto-call" & now, after deliberation, the well, actually, "MAYBE it is a pass" thoughts are arriving.

Fascinating!

I'd deffo be put on the clock......and I think I may need a nappy too.

Keep it coming.

OK, off to Brighton now. Will dwell up on this southbound.

[AdamM]

why put all your chips in first hand if you're less than 50% to win.
if you have  and are on the BB 1st hand and it passes round to SB who raises all in and you knew for a fact he had  do you call? I know you're a slight favourite but you're putting your whole tuorney on a gamble which if you win you dont definitely cash but if you lose you definitely dont.

theres no need to call here unless you think quadrupling up is the only way you can win the tourney

[snoopy1239]

why put all your chips in first hand if you're less than 50% to win.

Cos you can quadruple up and take a commanding chip lead.

[AdamM]

or crash out 1st hand.

as I say, if the tournet itself means very little to you, ie there's be another along in 10 minutes or there's a juicey cash game you want to get to then fine. if winning the tourney is important I thinkthere are better ways of gathering chips.

[Bongo]

why put all your chips in first hand if you're less than 50% to win.
if you have  and are on the BB 1st hand and it passes round to SB who raises all in and you knew for a fact he had  do you call? I know you're a slight favourite but you're putting your whole tuorney on a gamble which if you win you dont definitely cash but if you lose you definitely dont.

theres no need to call here unless you think quadrupling up is the only way you can win the tourney

That's a completely different situation - taking a 50:50 shot when being offered about 1:1, instead of taking a 50:50 when being offered a bit more than 3:1.

I remember reading an entry in Paul Phillips' blog that had a similar discussion - he had called all in a hand with a draw with favourable odds, people commented that he should pass and use his skill to beat the table. He said his skill was making the call

[bundle]

Makes me laugh.. I don't give a monkey's what they have..I AM AHEAD.

If you fold this you should take up another game. something like Bingo might suit you

I have to ask If this hand is not good enough to get all your chips in, what is?   If you had flopped the nuts flush would that be good enough? And then the guy with the set boats on the end.

Get em in when you are ahead..You can't ask for anymore.JMHO

[dan]

If you are not going to put your money on the line when you have the nuts when are you??

If you had aces preflop and someone moves in before you, do you fold as you could be outdrawn??

If we thought like this on every hand we played we would want to make sure we got down to the river on every hand and then had the best possible hand and how often does that happen??

I think if you can pass the nuts at any stage of a tourney then you shouldnt be playing in that game, as it is affecting your play.

[Longy]

If im playing in WSOP ME, skillwise i am at disadvantage to alot of the field. Therefore im going to get my chips in a positive situation like this one. You ONLY laydown the queens vs ak as well if you KNOW you have a significant advantage over the field, cos of the blinds you are slightly more than 1:1 and the queens are just ahead 53 vs 47, so im playing them the majority of the time,i might lay them down at Notts on Tuesday/ Wednesdays cos i believe i have an edge against the field there.

[snoopy1239]

I think the debate was initally about whether or not you'd be willing to risk a first hand exit at the WSOP ME.

[Longy]

Yeah i understand that snoopy just saying that the situation changes if you are playing a different weaker field. As stated above in the WSOP i call

[Bongo]

You ONLY laydown the queens vs ak as well if you KNOW you have a significant advantage over the field, cos of the blinds you are slightly more than 1:1 and the queens are just ahead 53 vs 47, so im playing them the majority of the time,i might lay them down at Notts on Tuesday/ Wednesdays cos i believe i have an edge against the field there.

Isn't whether to play this also effected by the rake and the non linearity of tournament chips?

[ifm]

Being honest i would fold first hand of the WSOP for 2 reasons:-

1. I would think that people are only gonna go allin here with trips or a flush draw (both) and so and pairup or club is gonna knock me out, that's a lot of outs spread over the other players.
2. It's the WSOP!!! i wanna last longer than 1 hand!!!

[AdamM]

if you're more likely to lose the hand than not, it doesn't matter if the pot odds are right or not, it's got to be a bad tournament strategy. if you change the A8 to two pair which is more likely you are going to loose this more than half the time. if you were second to speak and player one had made the big bet of course you move in. if there's been a bet and an all in raise I call. once there's been a bet, all in raise and all in call I can assume the original bettor is pot commited what ever I do. I'm nost likely to be against a flush draw and two lots of two pair. I could find one of them has  and is free rolling for the flush. tats a worst case but not all that unlikely given the action.

All I am saying is that it's not an automatic call. in a £30 game at the local I would call. if it was a major event I pass because the whole point about deep stack poker is not risking it all on one spin. in an online $30 MTT as this was I call because if I lose it's no big deal. WSOP ME 1st hand I pass because I'm not flipping a coin for 40 000 chips when that wont even be a big blind at the final table.

[snoopy1239]

I'm wavering on this debate.

Some1 needs to push me.