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Author Topic: Super System 2015  (Read 7385 times)
Doobs
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2015, 01:45:01 PM »

I'll sound like I'm from Tikay's era when I say this, but according to that HSDB link, WCGRider is down like $500k in cash games in the last 18months. And he's the best in the world at cash games?

I remembers Pleno's "you should never have a losing month" cash game theory. Has he just been reeeeeeeally unlucky? Won loads on "untracked" sites? Won loads at stakes too small to be reported by HSDB?

There generally isn't the same amount of volume in the high stakes games online than the rest of em. Never having a losing month might be accurate for Pleno1 when he was doing NL500 Zoom because he could get a shit load of hands in. Player pools are small in the nosebleeds and only a handful of tables run online, so its actually probably closer to live poker in the volume respect than many people realise (Still loads more hands in general though).

Agreed, the sample size renders Pleno's theory meaningless at those stakes.  That was just his full tilt graph too, his pokerstars is a bit better:

http://www.highstakesdb.com/profiles/WCGRider.aspx

Sure he doesn't feel too poor after that and his $4m of live winnings in the same period.  I assume he also plays a decent amount of live high stakes cash too given he is listed as from the US.

Edit, they are both listed as full tilt on the highstakes website, guess one is stars and the other is full tilt, but it doesn't really matter which is which, he doesn't look like he is losing overall or over the last 18 months.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 01:49:40 PM by Doobs » Logged

Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
Pinchop73
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2015, 02:10:30 PM »

Mixed Games: Phil Ivey. One, he's the poker player even people who don't know the hand rankings have heard of. Two, he's Phil Blinking Ivey. As coups go, it's a barnstormer and securing "No Home Jerome" makes the publishers their investment back by itself.

You have a reasonable chance of scoring this coup atm. He's down a mill ball in 8game this year alone
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pleno1
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« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2015, 03:59:36 PM »

High stakes swings in matches are millions though. Of course a guy playing very few hands/month is not going to be able to control variance. I meant that anybody playing medium/small
Stakes and able to play somewhat of a sample couldn't have a losing month.

Why is the reason he hasn't won? Because nobody will play him. Ask ike/sauce/anybody else mentioned in the thread and they all think he is the best in the world and won't play against him.

In terms of not knowing who he is, how many people really knew all the Jennifer harmens or whoever else wrote super system before it was released.

If yu asked the top 500 players in the world who the best no limit player is I would bet over 450 of them would say wcg.
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2015, 06:22:29 PM »

If yu asked the top 500 players in the world who the best no limit player is I would bet over 450 of them would say wcg.

I'd bet most of them would say themselves actually

If they couldn't include themselves, I'd bet against you on that.
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2015, 06:29:21 PM »

If yu asked the top 500 players in the world who the best no limit player is I would bet over 450 of them would say wcg.

I'd bet most of them would say themselves actually

If they couldn't include themselves, I'd bet against you on that.

I'd be surprised if anyone in the bottom 250 said themselves.

Having said that I think WCG is one of the worst to write in the book. Its about teaching the audience something. The audience probably wouldn't understand the level of his strategy unless he significantly dumbed it down so I can't see why you would choose him over a better teacher and worse player combination.
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pleno1
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« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2015, 07:38:56 PM »

High stakes swings in matches are millions though. Of course a guy playing very few hands/month is not going to be able to control variance. I meant that anybody playing medium/small
Stakes and able to play somewhat of a sample couldn't have a losing month.

Why is the reason he hasn't won? Because nobody will play him. Ask ike/sauce/anybody else mentioned in the thread and they all think he is the best in the world and won't play against him.

In terms of not knowing who he is, how many people really knew all the Jennifer harmens or whoever else wrote super system before it was released.

If yu asked the top 500 players in the world who the best no limit player is I would bet over 450 of them would say wcg.

Also part of the never have a losing month was the fact that you can alwyas get 20+bis in rakeback each month. If you give wcg 20bis/month extra he'd of course still be winning even if he went on the sickest downswing ever
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pleno1
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« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2015, 07:45:25 PM »

If yu asked the top 500 players in the world who the best no limit player is I would bet over 450 of them would say wcg.

I'd bet most of them would say themselves actually

If they couldn't include themselves, I'd bet against you on that.

I'd be surprised if anyone in the bottom 250 said themselves.

Having said that I think WCG is one of the worst to write in the book. Its about teaching the audience something. The audience probably wouldn't understand the level of his strategy unless he significantly dumbed it down so I can't see why you would choose him over a better teacher and worse player combination.

He was posting strategy content for the last 6-7 years. He was one of the biggest posters in small stakes no limit on 2p2. He grinded nl100 for years and has played every single stake. He is known to be one of the best coaches too, has an extremely profitable stable where he does a lot of coaching and is known to be one if the revolutionaries of the game introducing stuff like leading turns, changing of ore flop sizings etc.

Don't get me wrong I really don't like him as a person and think he comes across as arrogant etc but if the task was to do this at the best of his absolute then he would (imo) be the only clear choice for any of the categories.

@barry I would set the line at 490 people out of the 500 saying him because it's really that clear amongst most of the higher stakes regs how good he is.

Also he has taken guys who have never played poker in their life and within 6 months made them high stakes crushers, I doubt anybody else in the world could do that and shows he's more than capable of "dumbing down" content.
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MintTrav
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« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2015, 07:52:06 PM »

whoever wcg puts in his power ranking on twitter.

Who is wcg?

Unbelievable! How can you not know who Wcg is? He's like literally the best player ever ever ever.

Tell him, Pleno.





Lol, tell me too, please.

It's this guy


No matter how good this wcg chap is

Lol! You were watching him on the final table when he won his bracelet last year...
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pleno1
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« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2015, 07:55:27 PM »

whoever wcg puts in his power ranking on twitter.

Who is wcg?

Unbelievable! How can you not know who Wcg is? He's like literally the best player ever ever ever.

Tell him, Pleno.





Lol, tell me too, please.

It's this guy



He's lost half a million dollars in the last 18 months!

You sure?

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=191988

Really isn't like he is a nobody.


He is a nobody though, to the audience we are talking about. The audience for a modern super system is people dipping their toe into poker, just getting into it, on the fences. These guys have know idea who WGCRider is, they do know who Negreanu, Hellmuth, Hansen, Ivey, Brunson, Durrrr, Devilfish etc is, mostly from TV.

WGC is a huge somebody in the serious poker community, but we are a very small community.

In terms of tv in 2015 which is what is relevant he has been on the high stakes cash games, one drop etc. Does a lot of interviews. This week he is playing against university bots from MIT etc I really surprised at how people here view him but it's obviously the "general opinion" so I guess you guys are right.
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tikay
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« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2015, 07:59:21 PM »

whoever wcg puts in his power ranking on twitter.

Who is wcg?

Unbelievable! How can you not know who Wcg is? He's like literally the best player ever ever ever.

Tell him, Pleno.





Lol, tell me too, please.

It's this guy


No matter how good this wcg chap is

Lol! You were watching him on the final table when he won his bracelet last year...



Ahh yes, so I was.

I would never have associated him with this wcg chap though.
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KingPush
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« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2015, 08:14:40 PM »

I'll sound like I'm from Tikay's era when I say this, but according to that HSDB link, WCGRider is down like $500k in cash games in the last 18months. And he's the best in the world at cash games?

I remembers Pleno's "you should never have a losing month" cash game theory. Has he just been reeeeeeeally unlucky? Won loads on "untracked" sites? Won loads at stakes too small to be reported by HSDB?
he's been playing plo hu v Galfond, who's apparently fairly decent.

Also I think Durrr for bankroll management is pretty laughable since he's a bit of a joke now what with the challenge and the fact everyone says he's probably broke these days. Mtts or live play should probably be done by Daniel Negreanu, don't think anyone has as much of a following as he does
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2015, 08:19:00 PM »



Sorry had to be done

If there was some way of easily making this 490 out of 500 bet I'd love to take it, sadly it would be the impossible to do. Not that I'm not saying you are right, based on what you are saying its hard to despute his quality, just poker is so subjective I doubt 490 of the top 500 think as you do. I reckon you'd get at least 40 knee jerk Ivey responses for a start.
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pleno1
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« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2015, 08:23:47 PM »



Sorry had to be done

If there was some way of easily making this 490 out of 500 bet I'd love to take it, sadly it would be the impossible to do. Not that I'm not saying you are right, based on what you are saying its hard to despute his quality, just poker is so subjective I doubt 490 of the top 500 think as you do. I reckon you'd get at least 40 knee jerk Ivey responses for a start.

Sorry I'm talking about top 500 winning online cash game players not 500 random people in the world or 500 live guys etc. Not one would say Ivey.
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2015, 08:26:27 PM »



Sorry had to be done

If there was some way of easily making this 490 out of 500 bet I'd love to take it, sadly it would be the impossible to do. Not that I'm not saying you are right, based on what you are saying its hard to despute his quality, just poker is so subjective I doubt 490 of the top 500 think as you do. I reckon you'd get at least 40 knee jerk Ivey responses for a start.

Sorry I'm talking about top 500 winning online cash game players not 500 random people in the world or 500 live guys etc. Not one would say Ivey.

Yeah I'd bet against that too, I was also assuming you meant top 500 winning online cash players. You don't think a single one has a man crush on Ivey? Don't get me wrong, I know it would be a very small number compared to the usual toplists.

It's moot anyway, there is no way of accuratley identifying this top 500.
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« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2015, 04:54:17 PM »

Poker in 2015: Daniel Negreanu- Been around for ages, playing the biggest games/tourneys. Went from being at the top of the game to most probably the fish in most games he played back to on top. Has seen and understood the changes and adjustments to poker and what it takes to be a top player in today's games compared to 20 years ago.
 
No Limit Holdem: WCG- theres a reason no one in the world is willing to play him. Super smart guy and runs a very successful stable/has coached players to the top of the power rankings.

Pot Limit Omaha: Can't really pick one out. Ben Tollerene (Ben86/Bttech)same as WCG no one will play him HU, Phil Galfond-super smart and articulate, gets his though process across very well, only downside is he hasn't made any money in 5 years, Berri Sweet-results are phenomenal, downside is no one knows who he is.  Odd Oddsen- cos he's Odd Oddsen
 
PLO8: No idea
 
Seven Card Stud: Probably some old guy who has been playing for 50 years. Maybe one of the Vegas mixed game regs.
 
Mixed Games: Matt Ahston or Sauce
 
Cash Strategy: Cole South- really smart and articulate, knows cash games inside out, been around for ages and has adapted and progressed with the games.
 
MTT: Fedor or Pads
 
STT: People still play these? Dan Colman as a guess

Playing the Player: Mike McDonald
 
I'd add a chapter on exploitative vs GTO, how this has changed the game and why. Obv written by Ike.

If anyone has ever seen a video by Ivey or even heard about him talking about poker they wouldn't want him anywhere near a book.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 04:57:56 PM by POWWWWWWWW » Logged
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