The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[JohnCharver]

Being posh and educated aren't a choice either if you come from his background and don't wish to rebel and not educate yourself just because it gives you a better chance to run the country.  What a stupid thing to say.  why should you have to 'tone down' being posh?  Whatever that means!

Yeah its stupid, you think rees-mogg can win an election and Im saying stupid things. Id hope you get him but noone else is ever going to consider him.

[Doobs]

Being posh and educated aren't a choice either if you come from his background and don't wish to rebel and not educate yourself just because it gives you a better chance to run the country.  What a stupid thing to say.  why should you have to 'tone down' being posh?  Whatever that means!

Corbyn is pretty posh.  Private School then Grammar School.  Defo top 10% on the posh scale.  

[arbboy]

Being posh and educated aren't a choice either if you come from his background and don't wish to rebel and not educate yourself just because it gives you a better chance to run the country.  What a stupid thing to say.  why should you have to 'tone down' being posh?  Whatever that means!

Yeah its stupid, you think rees-mogg can win an election and Im saying stupid things. Id hope you get him but noone else is ever going to consider him.

My point was the British public are stupid for potentially just writing off a bloke like Mogg simply because he is too posh.  I am not talking about Mogg and his views specifically.

[Doobs]

Political tweeters are worse than gambling tweeters for aftertiming.  The election played out absolutely as they expected and needless to say "experts" said exactly the opposite.   

[buffyslayer1]

The education level part is probably skewed by older voters not going to uni in the same percentages as the young.

Yep, anyone who thinks that education level is some sort of damning statistic when it comes to political leanings is misguided. Too many people go to Uni these days and half the courses are totally useless. It would have meant something 30 years ago before D students would go to Rotherham University to study Gender Studies.

I'd like to see the stats for amount of tax paid.

Half the courses are totally useless?
I see this thrown around a lot and agree  certainly there are some that are not worthwhile and some less than stellar universities.

Seems a bit unfair to say half though..

I searched around a bit to see what the most popular courses are, and it seems that law, business, computing, medicine are most popular subjects still.

[neeko]

Roman Catholic can't be PM in this country.  Rules out Mogg.

Tony Blair was RC

I think he may be referring to the fact that it might make the coalition with the DUP harder (correct me if I'm wrong PokerBroker).

In the UK the CoE is the established church, the Queen is the head of that and the head of state and the head of government. 20 bishops sit in the House of Lords - bonkers but what passes for normal in the UK.

For a PM to be anything other than CoE would be odd. It can't last for ever but the UK takes time to change. I think tony B miraculously became RC just after leaving.

[PokerBroker]

The tories primary goal is to win elections and be in power, hence it was called when they were 15% ahead, they are now 3% behind, no chance they will call one now. They will just hang on until too many by-elections go the wrong way.

The best the tories can hope for is to stay in power and hope something comes up which means they can win the next one.

Every parties primary goal is to win elections and be in power....

I have never been sure that Jeremy Corbyn shares that view.

I am not sure Corbyn thinks he lost and his supporters are absolutely cocksure they have won. 

I wrote something about this other day in one of my lefty sites I will post here later but this is so important for the left to address.

The main point to my post was that they say a week is a long time in politics, which it jolly well is as anyone who followed the election will know it seemed that even this time last week the Tories were still surging towards a coronation and the chat was of how big the margin was going to be many well "respected" hacks and bloggers were saying 50 + majority, by correlation Labour were slipping to ignominious defeat.

Just as quick as fortunes turned for the Tories, Corbyn his merry men, supporters and even the centre left of his party are basking in glory and you would think they had won the election not found themselves 50 seats behind the worst tory campaign in history.  Now is a time for serious reflection.  But there hasn't been on bit of it because Labour and their supporters are already factoring in the seats won by Plaid, Greens, SNP and Sinn Fein as somesort of rainbow coalition.   Because the coalition they have fashioned under their own banner, public sector workers, metropolitan liberals, ethnic minorities, and students simply lacks the juice to deliver.

What seems to have been overlooked by Labour powerbrokers is that Labour despite winning in University towns up and down England and winning over places like Kensington the Tories made inroads into former Labour heartlands and winning over former mining towns.  Its baffling, but nothing much has been said about it.

The thing is while the Tories can be absolutely certain of regaining the posh seats they lost on Thursday once the insanity that engulfed their leadership settles, Labour, with or without Corbyn, would be wise to rely on former working class areas not returning to the fold.

May has said she intends to lead for the full term, I don't think that is ever going to happen.  5 weeks is more probable than 5 years simply because she has very few friends in politics.  She has always come across as a single minded woman and "bloody difficult" but even as Home Secretary she had very few allies and as we know she basically sidelined her whole cabinet in producing the manifesto instead she took relied on her two aides who have now quit.  Leapords dont change their spots.  She will be marginalised pretty soon as soon as brexit negotiations get underway and if she has the temerity to negotiate herself there is guaranteed to be briefings off record blaming her when things dont work out well.  Davies is slipperry enough to make the manouveres behind her back and will probably set it up for Boris to come in and fail terribly.  

I think the cracks first started appearing when May and Phillip appeared on The One Show he seemed the more relaxed one and she the professional politician looked visably scared.  I'd hate to name her condition, but I'd bet she is on the spectrum.  She genuinley seemed to think a few days ago that it was going to be business as usual and even the supporters they have wheeled out in front of the media they have reiterated the mantra of "strong and stable" when it is very clearly not.  

If Labour and the wider Left learn anything from this campaign the SNP also have to step up to the table and re-evaluate their game plan.  It is argued that Sturgeon is a bit like May in that she has surounded herself with key soldiers who are central belt and don't get the outsiders where they lost key ground to the tories even in despite of the pan-unionist alliance we say playout in Scotland.

[DaveShoelace]

The education level part is probably skewed by older voters not going to uni in the same percentages as the young.

Yep, anyone who thinks that education level is some sort of damning statistic when it comes to political leanings is misguided. Too many people go to Uni these days and half the courses are totally useless. It would have meant something 30 years ago before D students would go to Rotherham University to study Gender Studies.

I'd like to see the stats for amount of tax paid.

Half the courses are totally useless?
I see this thrown around a lot and agree  certainly there are some that are not worthwhile and some less than stellar universities.

Seems a bit unfair to say half though..

I searched around a bit to see what the most popular courses are, and it seems that law, business, computing, medicine are most popular subjects still.

My 'half' stat is not grounded in anything specific, but a great deal of University courses are the Humanities which really are useless unless you become a Humanities teacher. More importantly, there are approximately 6 graduates for every graduate level job, so most people are going to come out of Uni bitterly disappointed and in debt.

[RickBFA]

Problem for the Tories is that the public have been looking to give the establishment a kicking.

That's what happened with Brexit vote.

For a big chunk of people voting for Labour was a protest vote.

Any new Tory leader has to have a wide appeal.

Only candidate that might bridge the gap in terms of age, none establishment figure and seems human is Davidson. That's her appeal but others here think I'm talking bollocks  

[PokerBroker]

Roman Catholic can't be PM in this country.  Rules out Mogg.

Tony Blair was RC

I think he may be referring to the fact that it might make the coalition with the DUP harder (correct me if I'm wrong PokerBroker).

In the UK the CoE is the established church, the Queen is the head of that and the head of state and the head of government. 20 bishops sit in the House of Lords - bonkers but what passes for normal in the UK.

For a PM to be anything other than CoE would be odd. It can't last for ever but the UK takes time to change. I think tony B miraculously became RC just after leaving.

Yeah Blair became RC after his tenure.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/jun/22/uk.religion1

[PokerBroker]

Problem for the Tories is that the public have been looking to give the establishment a kicking.

That's what happened with Brexit vote.

For a big chunk of people voting for Labour was a protest vote.

Any new Tory leader has to have a wide appeal.

Only candidate that might bridge the gap in terms of age, none establishment figure and seems human is Davidson. That's her appeal but others here think I'm talking bollocks  

She might tick all te boxes but she is a terrible politician, she's good for sound bytes but she genuinley is an idiot and is terrible at debating and any serious criticism of her record would show massive flaws.  The Scottis tories at Holyrood are are C list at best.  I am clearly biased but that is an honest assessment.

[nirvana]

Being posh and educated aren't a choice either if you come from his background and don't wish to rebel and not educate yourself just because it gives you a better chance to run the country.  What a stupid thing to say.  why should you have to 'tone down' being posh?  Whatever that means!

Corbyn is pretty posh.  Private School then Grammar School.  Defo top 10% on the posh scale.  

Yep , says iss-yews

[Doobs]

The tories primary goal is to win elections and be in power, hence it was called when they were 15% ahead, they are now 3% behind, no chance they will call one now. They will just hang on until too many by-elections go the wrong way.

The best the tories can hope for is to stay in power and hope something comes up which means they can win the next one.

Every parties primary goal is to win elections and be in power....

I have never been sure that Jeremy Corbyn shares that view.

I am not sure Corbyn thinks he lost and his supporters are absolutely cocksure they have won. 

I wrote something about this other day in one of my lefty sites I will post here later but this is so important for the left to address.

The main point to my post was that they say a week is a long time in politics, which it jolly well is as anyone who followed the election will know it seemed that even this time last week the Tories were still surging towards a coronation and the chat was of how big the margin was going to be many well "respected" hacks and bloggers were saying 50 + majority, by correlation Labour were slipping to ignominious defeat.

Just as quick as fortunes turned for the Tories, Corbyn his merry men, supporters and even the centre left of his party are basking in glory and you would think they had won the election not found themselves 50 seats behind the worst tory campaign in history.  Now is a time for serious reflection.  But there hasn't been on bit of it because Labour and their supporters are already factoring in the seats won by Plaid, Greens, SNP and Sinn Fein as somesort of rainbow coalition.   Because the coalition they have fashioned under their own banner, public sector workers, metropolitan liberals, ethnic minorities, and students simply lacks the juice to deliver.

What seems to have been overlooked by Labour powerbrokers is that Labour despite winning in University towns up and down England and winning over places like Kensington the Tories made inroads into former Labour heartlands and winning over former mining towns.  Its baffling, but nothing much has been said about it.

The thing is while the Tories can be absolutely certain of regaining the posh seats they lost on Thursday once the insanity that engulfed their leadership settles, Labour, with or without Corbyn, would be wise to rely on former working class areas not returning to the fold.

May has said she intends to lead for the full term, I don't think that is ever going to happen.  5 weeks is more probable than 5 years simply because she has very few friends in politics.  She has always come across as a single minded woman and "bloody difficult" but even as Home Secretary she had very few allies and as we know she basically sidelined her whole cabinet in producing the manifesto instead she took relied on her two aides who have now quit.  Leapords dont change their spots.  She will be marginalised pretty soon as soon as brexit negotiations get underway and if she has the temerity to negotiate herself there is guaranteed to be briefings off record blaming her when things dont work out well.  Davies is slipperry enough to make the manouveres behind her back and will probably set it up for Boris to come in and fail terribly.  

I think the cracks first started appearing when May and Phillip appeared on The One Show he seemed the more relaxed one and she the professional politician looked visably scared.  I'd hate to name her condition, but I'd bet she is on the spectrum.  She genuinley seemed to think a few days ago that it was going to be business as usual and even the supporters they have wheeled out in front of the media they have reiterated the mantra of "strong and stable" when it is very clearly not.  

If Labour and the wider Left learn anything from this campaign the SNP also have to step up to the table and re-evaluate their game plan.  It is argued that Sturgeon is a bit like May in that she has surounded herself with key soldiers who are central belt and don't get the outsiders where they lost key ground to the tories even in despite of the pan-unionist alliance we say playout in Scotland.

Surely byelections will stop any chance of a full term?  Conservatives seem to be the ageing party, so presumably they will start reverting to mean and should be more likely to die?  

I really don't see how the progressive coilition holds either.  Too many parties wanting some of their own policies.  Conservatives and DUP are interchangeable at the more conservative end and still seem to be struggling to get an agreement* and surely Sinn Fein are likely no-shows.  

* surely a master negotiator like May could have had this settled by now.

[titaniumbean]

for those who haven't seen it, this is not a parody account 


https://www.instagram.com/jacob_rees_mogg/



"We shall have to take our business elsewhere"

Click to see full-size image.

"Buying a cake at Priston Fete"

Click to see full-size image.

[buffyslayer1]

The education level part is probably skewed by older voters not going to uni in the same percentages as the young.

Yep, anyone who thinks that education level is some sort of damning statistic when it comes to political leanings is misguided. Too many people go to Uni these days and half the courses are totally useless. It would have meant something 30 years ago before D students would go to Rotherham University to study Gender Studies.

I'd like to see the stats for amount of tax paid.

Half the courses are totally useless?
I see this thrown around a lot and agree  certainly there are some that are not worthwhile and some less than stellar universities.

Seems a bit unfair to say half though..

I searched around a bit to see what the most popular courses are, and it seems that law, business, computing, medicine are most popular subjects still.

My 'half' stat is not grounded in anything specific, but a great deal of University courses are the Humanties which really are useless unless you become a Humanties teacher. More importantly, there are approximately 6 graduates for every graduate level job, so most people are going to come out of Uni bitterly disappointed.

If it's not grounded on anything stop pulling numbers out of thin air to try and make a point.

Humanities which I assume you mean history/geography type subjects are a tiny proportion of degrees taken. They were not even in the top 10 courses.  
Like I said I looked around and the most popular degrees are still business, computing etc etc

I don't disagree that there are far to many grads for the number of jobs going. It's a massive issue for a lot of people who have been sold/pushed down the university route.

Think I said earlier in the thread even as someone pro university I think it was widened too much and would like to see investment  in non university routes for young people because it's the only option they seem to have/pushed down.

Where the degree comes from I agree I think this is the bigger issue actually, not what's studied. If you get a history degree from Oxbridge the world's your oyster.

Those that go to top universities have a much more rigourous challenge than some of the newer ones (obviously) employers know this. Even if you do a 'worthwhile' subject at one or these, it's very tough to compete.