The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

It's quite interesting watching Osborne - he is definitely, very rapidly, emerging in a prime ministerial way. Looking far less awkward etc

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman

What does the spending review mean for Osborne’s leadership ambitions? My column in today’s Independent/i paper http://ind.pn/1MV0VaU

Interesting piece and no idea how he and Johnson are viewed in a contest within the wider party. Will be an interesting contest when it comes round

[nirvana]

What is the actual mechanics of the PLP trying to replace Corbyn ? Anyone know ?

[TightEnd]

What is the actual mechanics of the PLP trying to replace Corbyn ? Anyone know ?

someone has to challenge him

"The Labour party system of electing a leader for an indefinite period makes sensible recall procedures impossible. The logical reason for an open ended term was ended once the Fixed Parliament Act was passed in 2010, as the need to have a leader ready in opposition to fight an election was ended. Up to then, the government could call an election at any time so Labour had to be ready. Now the government is able to replace the Prime Minister within a five year term, Labour also gained this freedom while in opposition.

The fact that there is no fixed term of office, allows mechanisms for challenging and replacing the leader while in opposition, which are indeed part of the rule book. However the rules are vague and certainly do not provide a mandatory system. Instead they either allow a leader to go on for the full term – currently 4 years and 8 months once the NEC had decreed a four month campaign, which is not within the rules*. Alternatively, members of the PLP are allowed to challenge the leader and indeed apparently can do so on a yearly basis if they wish."

the problem the moderates have is the membership are very pro-corbyn, or are since it was opened up to £3 subscriptions

with the majority of the membership in the hands of the hard left they are screwed

they are left sitting there playing the long game, hoping that at some point before 2020 votes in the wider electorate take on more importance than votes in the party membership

where corbyn may have a problem is if the Unions (bankrollers) stop supporting him. then its game on

[TightEnd]

its the daily mail, and lacks some sourcing, but tallies up with the links earlier from the spectator, guardian and new statesman

"'It's bullsh*t!' Corbyn gets blasted in shadow cabinet meeting over 'totally disingenuous' tests for bombing ISIS as frontbenchers say it is a 'fantasy' that he could ever be PM"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3336090/Labour-s-civil-war-Syria-Corbyn-pulls-key-Oldham-election-visit-MPs-threaten-mass-resignations-refusal-support-airstrikes-against-ISIS.html#ixzz3savfYrW1

[Woodsey]

surely we want them to listen and adapt in the face of good counter arguments ?

Actually we don't - we then berate them for 'broken promises'. Don't we all need to grow up and not see plans and policies as some kind of solemn promise.

True, but when you are joke party with a joke leader who very few can take seriously, what else are you left with but berating someone for changing their opinion to something you wanted in the first place anyway?

Really enjoyed the politics of the last few months, it's great to see labour being shown up as the numpties they are  

I know you're (mostly) just winding people up, but would you really like to see Britain reduced to a one party state with no effective opposition?

If it keeps our government centre right then yes I don't really care, plus I like a good clown show for entertainment purposes 

[DaveShoelace]

surely we want them to listen and adapt in the face of good counter arguments ?

Actually we don't - we then berate them for 'broken promises'. Don't we all need to grow up and not see plans and policies as some kind of solemn promise.

True, but when you are joke party with a joke leader who very few can take seriously, what else are you left with but berating someone for changing their opinion to something you wanted in the first place anyway?

Really enjoyed the politics of the last few months, it's great to see labour being shown up as the numpties they are  

I know you're (mostly) just winding people up, but would you really like to see Britain reduced to a one party state with no effective opposition?

If it keeps our government centre right then yes I don't really care, plus I like a good clown show for entertainment purposes 

You need a good opposition to stop a centre right, or centre left, party from drifting towards the far ends of the spectrum.

[MintTrav]

Question of the day

The result of the US Presidential Election next year is almost as important for us as anything else in British politics next year. Agree or disagree?

Disagree - it is more important. US interest rates impact our economy more than anything our government does. And then there is foreign policy.........!

[Woodsey]

surely we want them to listen and adapt in the face of good counter arguments ?

Actually we don't - we then berate them for 'broken promises'. Don't we all need to grow up and not see plans and policies as some kind of solemn promise.

True, but when you are joke party with a joke leader who very few can take seriously, what else are you left with but berating someone for changing their opinion to something you wanted in the first place anyway?

Really enjoyed the politics of the last few months, it's great to see labour being shown up as the numpties they are  

I know you're (mostly) just winding people up, but would you really like to see Britain reduced to a one party state with no effective opposition?

If it keeps our government centre right then yes I don't really care, plus I like a good clown show for entertainment purposes 

You need a good opposition to stop a centre right, or centre left, party from drifting towards the far ends of the spectrum.

I honestly don't care, the worse labour are and the less chance of them getting voted in is all good for me personally. The fact they are currently making themselves look like idiots is just the icing on the cake 

[AlunB]

Question of the day

The result of the US Presidential Election next year is almost as important for us as anything else in British politics next year. Agree or disagree?

Disagree - it is more important. US interest rates impact our economy more than anything our government does. And then there is foreign policy.........!

Whaaa?

[neeko]

Question of the day

The result of the US Presidential Election next year is almost as important for us as anything else in British politics next year. Agree or disagree?

Disagree - it is more important. US interest rates impact our economy more than anything our government does. And then there is foreign policy.........!

The more interesting result in 2016 will be the result from the senate. It should be a big win for the democrats (given the seats up for election) which given the congress will be republican due to the gerrymandering- you can guarantee gridlock between those.

That will probably make the president fairly ineffectual, unless it's trump and it won't be, fracking will keep the oil price low for the next decade, so less urgency to intervein in the Middle East. The Supreme Court is fairly moderate so not much will be changing.

[TightEnd]

the interview with Kellner of yougove with andrew neil on daily politics is worth a watch

400,000 labour members. polling has them 2/3 against bombing syria

9m labour voters in may. polling has them, if not labour members, 2/3 for bombing syria

big disconnect between activists and the country and the labour MPs they elected

then said the conservative party faces the same on europe. voters pro, members anti for the referendum next year

[horseplayer]

surely we want them to listen and adapt in the face of good counter arguments ?

Actually we don't - we then berate them for 'broken promises'. Don't we all need to grow up and not see plans and policies as some kind of solemn promise.

True, but when you are joke party with a joke leader who very few can take seriously, what else are you left with but berating someone for changing their opinion to something you wanted in the first place anyway?

Really enjoyed the politics of the last few months, it's great to see labour being shown up as the numpties they are  

I know you're (mostly) just winding people up, but would you really like to see Britain reduced to a one party state with no effective opposition?

If it keeps our government centre right then yes I don't really care, plus I like a good clown show for entertainment purposes  

Don't feed the troll

[TightEnd]

Death of a political party: Jeremy Corbyn has killed Labour

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/death-of-a-political-party-jeremy-corbyn-has-killed-labour/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

a fascinating read on tactics

[Woodsey]

surely we want them to listen and adapt in the face of good counter arguments ?

Actually we don't - we then berate them for 'broken promises'. Don't we all need to grow up and not see plans and policies as some kind of solemn promise.

True, but when you are joke party with a joke leader who very few can take seriously, what else are you left with but berating someone for changing their opinion to something you wanted in the first place anyway?

Really enjoyed the politics of the last few months, it's great to see labour being shown up as the numpties they are  

I know you're (mostly) just winding people up, but would you really like to see Britain reduced to a one party state with no effective opposition?

If it keeps our government centre right then yes I don't really care, plus I like a good clown show for entertainment purposes  

Don't feed the troll

No trolling here, just saying what I really think. Maybe you one of those people that call people a troll when you hear something you don't like? I suspect so.... 

[DaveShoelace]

surely we want them to listen and adapt in the face of good counter arguments ?

Actually we don't - we then berate them for 'broken promises'. Don't we all need to grow up and not see plans and policies as some kind of solemn promise.

True, but when you are joke party with a joke leader who very few can take seriously, what else are you left with but berating someone for changing their opinion to something you wanted in the first place anyway?

Really enjoyed the politics of the last few months, it's great to see labour being shown up as the numpties they are  

I know you're (mostly) just winding people up, but would you really like to see Britain reduced to a one party state with no effective opposition?

If it keeps our government centre right then yes I don't really care, plus I like a good clown show for entertainment purposes  

Don't feed the troll

No trolling here, just saying what I really think. Maybe you one of those people that call people a troll when you hear something you don't like? I suspect so.... 

Or maybe he is one who calls them a troll when they make an emoji waving their arse at them?