The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[DungBeetle]

In 2017, there were 28 cases of alleged in-person voter fraud throughout the whole country.

Yesterday, the government trialled voter ID in five Councils to deal with this non-existent problem. In very limited observations, Democracy Volunteers observed almost 2% of voters who attempted to vote being turned away for not having ID, not including those who turned around themselves when they saw signs spelling out the requirement or those who were put off from trying at all. One case of attempted personation was observed.

If the Conservatives are planning to impose voter ID throughout the country in order to suppress poorer people voting for other parties, the trial was a significant success.

https://democracyvolunteersdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/voter-id-pilot-areas-special-report-2018.pdf

You need ID for so many things these days.  Anyone who can’t bring the ID is stupid or lazy.  Why do you seem to imply that it is only the poor who are morons?  Surely this impacts f*ckwits of all standings?

That isn't even where the argument is. There is a legitimate debate about whether everyone should carry ID, but whether the poor are disproportionately affected isn't in question. It is well-established from other countries that it is the poor who are affected by this. Check out Black disenfranchisement in the US for starters.

Why does it impact anyone unless they are thick or lazy?  What person on the electoral role doesn’t have 2 items of a bank card/council tax letter/bank statement/driving licence/poll card/utility bill.  Idiocy doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.....

Yes, they are more disorganised/lazy/undeserving than us. Therefore they should not be allowed to vote?

You are concerned with how they should be. No doubt they should be better organised, etc, but we need to deal with how they are, not how they should be. These are people who have made the effort to go and vote, and we want to create artificial barriers to stop them from doing so. The fact is that there are people who don't have the documents. There are plenty who do but don't carry them, or forgot to bring them. Why should people have to go home again to get random documents and make a second journey? Or maybe not get to come back at all?

It is achieving nothing.  There is no problem with personation. It isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut, cos there is no nut. It is just a blatant attempt to prevent people from voting. In the absence of a personation problem, anyone who supports this restriction doesn't give two hoots about democracy and is only interested in improving the position of right-wing parties by underhand methods.

I thought the right wing had tons of thickos as well?  Why do you think these trogs will manage to muster some
ID?

[Woodsey]

In 2017, there were 28 cases of alleged in-person voter fraud throughout the whole country.

Yesterday, the government trialled voter ID in five Councils to deal with this non-existent problem. In very limited observations, Democracy Volunteers observed almost 2% of voters who attempted to vote being turned away for not having ID, not including those who turned around themselves when they saw signs spelling out the requirement or those who were put off from trying at all. One case of attempted personation was observed.

If the Conservatives are planning to impose voter ID throughout the country in order to suppress poorer people voting for other parties, the trial was a significant success.

https://democracyvolunteersdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/voter-id-pilot-areas-special-report-2018.pdf

You need ID for so many things these days.  Anyone who can’t bring the ID is stupid or lazy.  Why do you seem to imply that it is only the poor who are morons?  Surely this impacts f*ckwits of all standings?

That isn't even where the argument is. There is a legitimate debate about whether everyone should carry ID, but whether the poor are disproportionately affected isn't in question. It is well-established from other countries that it is the poor who are affected by this. Check out Black disenfranchisement in the US for starters.

Why does it impact anyone unless they are thick or lazy?  What person on the electoral role doesn’t have 2 items of a bank card/council tax letter/bank statement/driving licence/poll card/utility bill.  Idiocy doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.....

Yes, they are more disorganised/lazy/undeserving than us. Therefore they should not be allowed to vote?

You are concerned with how they should be. No doubt they should be better organised, etc, but we need to deal with how they are, not how they should be. These are people who have made the effort to go and vote, and we want to create artificial barriers to stop them from doing so. The fact is that there are people who don't have the documents. There are plenty who do but don't carry them, or forgot to bring them. Why should people have to go home again to get random documents and make a second journey? Or maybe not get to come back at all?

It is achieving nothing.  There is no problem with personation. It isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut, cos there is no nut. It is just a blatant attempt to prevent people from voting. In the absence of a personation problem, anyone who supports this restriction doesn't give two hoots about democracy and is only interested in improving the position of right-wing parties by underhand methods.

Sorry but having read the list of possible things they could have used for ID (a very wide range of things) I’ve decided you are talking a load of bollox and just using it as an excuse to have a whine about the Tories. Had Labour implemented this you wouldn’t have a word to say about it. People need to be responsible for their own shit and not blame others.

What’s on your whine list about the Tories tomorrow?

This is an important issue and you are pretending not to understand the implications. But you don't care about democracy, do you? All you are interested in is the right result. Go on - admit it.

Not in this life or the next, if people can’t produce any of the wide range of possible ID they can use then tough shit. I also stand by my comment if labour had done this you would have fk all to say, it’s just a whine......

It is a serious issue.  Denying 2% of the population a vote when margins ard so tight for no good reasion is a pretty shitty thing to do.  Poor people have less sources of ID than rich, so it isn't straightforward.   There aren't many with no access to bank accounts, but dare say not many of them vote Conservative.

Tbf, anyone who doesn't have a bank account is very unlikely to vote at all I guess and even if they did want to there's a good chance they're a racist thicko as likely to vote UKIP/ Tory as Labour. Hard to know who to vote for when you're a thicko these days.

This all detracts a bit from the central point though about motivations and if the motivations were to stop opposition voters voting then it's pernicious - not sure you can draw parallels with US black disenfranchisment though, it's not so clear cut here in terms of how someone who is poor will vote.. especially since Brexit fked all the traditional dividing lines up.

Thanks Woodsey, I knew you'd admit it. I'd say it's unlikely Labour would introduce it because, funnily enough, it seems to be right-wing parties that do so. I wonder why that is.

I didn’t admit anything so you’re talking more bollox, and you don’t know if labour would introduce it or not so you that’s even more bollox again.

As I said it’s just a whine, and if labour did introduce it 100% you would have fk all to say.....

You believe in democracy? Great. If that's the case, you'll obviously agree that there should be a second Referendum, not just on the terms, but on whether to leave or stay.

I believe in everyone doing taking responsibility for themselves to ensure they have the ID so they can do the democratic thing and vote, it’s not hard to get the required ID.

Second referendum? Are you going to start a whine about that now also? I can hear a harmony of whining...... 

Gotta go soon. Thanks for playing. All answers pretty much as predicted.

I’ll be around I’m not running away. You haven’t provided a compelling case for your argument, but instead tried to make excuses for people not being responsible for their own actions when it would be pretty easy to get the required ID to vote. Always the lefty way, make excuses and shirk personal responsibility.

Thanks for the whine anyway, it’s always fun  

[Woodsey]

For different reasons I guess but in one part of electorate Labour did introduce voter id checks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Fraud_(Northern_Ireland)_Act_2002

Where was Mintrav then? I think I know the answer...... game, set and match M’lord 

[Jon MW]

...

I’ll be around I’m not running away. You haven’t provided a compelling case for your argument, but instead tried to make excuses for people not being responsible for their own actions when it would be pretty easy to get the required ID to vote. Always the lefty way, make excuses and shirk personal responsibility.

Thanks for the whine anyway, it’s always fun  

But to put it another way - what's the compelling case for having to have ID cards to vote in the first place?

It's irrelevant if people could always get an ID card if they really tried when they shouldn't need to have one at all.

[RED-DOG]

Just out of curiosity, how do you get photo ID?

[Woodsey]

...

I’ll be around I’m not running away. You haven’t provided a compelling case for your argument, but instead tried to make excuses for people not being responsible for their own actions when it would be pretty easy to get the required ID to vote. Always the lefty way, make excuses and shirk personal responsibility.

Thanks for the whine anyway, it’s always fun  

But to put it another way - what's the compelling case for having to have ID cards to vote in the first place?

It's irrelevant if people could always get an ID card if they really tried when they shouldn't need to have one at all.

They have no idea of the level of electoral fraud, it might be significant, it might not be, all they have is a number of accusations but no idea of the number of people that have got away with it.

I’m not overly precious either way tbh, but when someone uses it to try and make a political point that suits them then they deserve a poke up the arse with a red hot poker when it’s clear they wouldn’t have said a dickie bird if ‘their party’ had introduced it. Total hypocrisy imo.....

[MintTrav]

In 2017, there were 28 cases of alleged in-person voter fraud throughout the whole country.

Yesterday, the government trialled voter ID in five Councils to deal with this non-existent problem. In very limited observations, Democracy Volunteers observed almost 2% of voters who attempted to vote being turned away for not having ID, not including those who turned around themselves when they saw signs spelling out the requirement or those who were put off from trying at all. One case of attempted personation was observed.

If the Conservatives are planning to impose voter ID throughout the country in order to suppress poorer people voting for other parties, the trial was a significant success.

https://democracyvolunteersdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/voter-id-pilot-areas-special-report-2018.pdf

You need ID for so many things these days.  Anyone who can’t bring the ID is stupid or lazy.  Why do you seem to imply that it is only the poor who are morons?  Surely this impacts f*ckwits of all standings?

That isn't even where the argument is. There is a legitimate debate about whether everyone should carry ID, but whether the poor are disproportionately affected isn't in question. It is well-established from other countries that it is the poor who are affected by this. Check out Black disenfranchisement in the US for starters.

Why does it impact anyone unless they are thick or lazy?  What person on the electoral role doesn’t have 2 items of a bank card/council tax letter/bank statement/driving licence/poll card/utility bill.  Idiocy doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.....

Yes, they are more disorganised/lazy/undeserving than us. Therefore they should not be allowed to vote?

You are concerned with how they should be. No doubt they should be better organised, etc, but we need to deal with how they are, not how they should be. These are people who have made the effort to go and vote, and we want to create artificial barriers to stop them from doing so. The fact is that there are people who don't have the documents. There are plenty who do but don't carry them, or forgot to bring them. Why should people have to go home again to get random documents and make a second journey? Or maybe not get to come back at all?

It is achieving nothing.  There is no problem with personation. It isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut, cos there is no nut. It is just a blatant attempt to prevent people from voting. In the absence of a personation problem, anyone who supports this restriction doesn't give two hoots about democracy and is only interested in improving the position of right-wing parties by underhand methods.

Sorry but having read the list of possible things they could have used for ID (a very wide range of things) I’ve decided you are talking a load of bollox and just using it as an excuse to have a whine about the Tories. Had Labour implemented this you wouldn’t have a word to say about it. People need to be responsible for their own shit and not blame others.

What’s on your whine list about the Tories tomorrow?

This is an important issue and you are pretending not to understand the implications. But you don't care about democracy, do you? All you are interested in is the right result. Go on - admit it.

Not in this life or the next, if people can’t produce any of the wide range of possible ID they can use then tough shit. I also stand by my comment if labour had done this you would have fk all to say, it’s just a whine......

It is a serious issue.  Denying 2% of the population a vote when margins ard so tight for no good reasion is a pretty shitty thing to do.  Poor people have less sources of ID than rich, so it isn't straightforward.   There aren't many with no access to bank accounts, but dare say not many of them vote Conservative.

Tbf, anyone who doesn't have a bank account is very unlikely to vote at all I guess and even if they did want to there's a good chance they're a racist thicko as likely to vote UKIP/ Tory as Labour. Hard to know who to vote for when you're a thicko these days.

This all detracts a bit from the central point though about motivations and if the motivations were to stop opposition voters voting then it's pernicious - not sure you can draw parallels with US black disenfranchisment though, it's not so clear cut here in terms of how someone who is poor will vote.. especially since Brexit fked all the traditional dividing lines up.

Thanks Woodsey, I knew you'd admit it. I'd say it's unlikely Labour would introduce it because, funnily enough, it seems to be right-wing parties that do so. I wonder why that is.

I didn’t admit anything so you’re talking more bollox, and you don’t know if labour would introduce it or not so you that’s even more bollox again.

As I said it’s just a whine, and if labour did introduce it 100% you would have fk all to say.....

You believe in democracy? Great. If that's the case, you'll obviously agree that there should be a second Referendum, not just on the terms, but on whether to leave or stay.

I believe in everyone doing taking responsibility for themselves to ensure they have the ID so they can do the democratic thing and vote, it’s not hard to get the required ID.

Second referendum? Are you going to start a whine about that now also? I can hear a harmony of whining...... 

Gotta go soon. Thanks for playing. All answers pretty much as predicted.

I’ll be around I’m not running away. You haven’t provided a compelling case for your argument, but instead tried to make excuses for people not being responsible for their own actions when it would be pretty easy to get the required ID to vote. Always the lefty way, make excuses and shirk personal responsibility.

Thanks for the whine anyway, it’s always fun  

I think I have, and I think you understand it but are deliberately ignoring it. 'Personal responsibility' is just a right-wing mantra for excluding people who don't match up (who, conveniently, happen to be just some of the people you are happy to exclude).

[Woodsey]

In 2017, there were 28 cases of alleged in-person voter fraud throughout the whole country.

Yesterday, the government trialled voter ID in five Councils to deal with this non-existent problem. In very limited observations, Democracy Volunteers observed almost 2% of voters who attempted to vote being turned away for not having ID, not including those who turned around themselves when they saw signs spelling out the requirement or those who were put off from trying at all. One case of attempted personation was observed.

If the Conservatives are planning to impose voter ID throughout the country in order to suppress poorer people voting for other parties, the trial was a significant success.

https://democracyvolunteersdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/voter-id-pilot-areas-special-report-2018.pdf

You need ID for so many things these days.  Anyone who can’t bring the ID is stupid or lazy.  Why do you seem to imply that it is only the poor who are morons?  Surely this impacts f*ckwits of all standings?

That isn't even where the argument is. There is a legitimate debate about whether everyone should carry ID, but whether the poor are disproportionately affected isn't in question. It is well-established from other countries that it is the poor who are affected by this. Check out Black disenfranchisement in the US for starters.

Why does it impact anyone unless they are thick or lazy?  What person on the electoral role doesn’t have 2 items of a bank card/council tax letter/bank statement/driving licence/poll card/utility bill.  Idiocy doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.....

Yes, they are more disorganised/lazy/undeserving than us. Therefore they should not be allowed to vote?

You are concerned with how they should be. No doubt they should be better organised, etc, but we need to deal with how they are, not how they should be. These are people who have made the effort to go and vote, and we want to create artificial barriers to stop them from doing so. The fact is that there are people who don't have the documents. There are plenty who do but don't carry them, or forgot to bring them. Why should people have to go home again to get random documents and make a second journey? Or maybe not get to come back at all?

It is achieving nothing.  There is no problem with personation. It isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut, cos there is no nut. It is just a blatant attempt to prevent people from voting. In the absence of a personation problem, anyone who supports this restriction doesn't give two hoots about democracy and is only interested in improving the position of right-wing parties by underhand methods.

Sorry but having read the list of possible things they could have used for ID (a very wide range of things) I’ve decided you are talking a load of bollox and just using it as an excuse to have a whine about the Tories. Had Labour implemented this you wouldn’t have a word to say about it. People need to be responsible for their own shit and not blame others.

What’s on your whine list about the Tories tomorrow?

This is an important issue and you are pretending not to understand the implications. But you don't care about democracy, do you? All you are interested in is the right result. Go on - admit it.

Not in this life or the next, if people can’t produce any of the wide range of possible ID they can use then tough shit. I also stand by my comment if labour had done this you would have fk all to say, it’s just a whine......

It is a serious issue.  Denying 2% of the population a vote when margins ard so tight for no good reasion is a pretty shitty thing to do.  Poor people have less sources of ID than rich, so it isn't straightforward.   There aren't many with no access to bank accounts, but dare say not many of them vote Conservative.

Tbf, anyone who doesn't have a bank account is very unlikely to vote at all I guess and even if they did want to there's a good chance they're a racist thicko as likely to vote UKIP/ Tory as Labour. Hard to know who to vote for when you're a thicko these days.

This all detracts a bit from the central point though about motivations and if the motivations were to stop opposition voters voting then it's pernicious - not sure you can draw parallels with US black disenfranchisment though, it's not so clear cut here in terms of how someone who is poor will vote.. especially since Brexit fked all the traditional dividing lines up.

Thanks Woodsey, I knew you'd admit it. I'd say it's unlikely Labour would introduce it because, funnily enough, it seems to be right-wing parties that do so. I wonder why that is.

I didn’t admit anything so you’re talking more bollox, and you don’t know if labour would introduce it or not so you that’s even more bollox again.

As I said it’s just a whine, and if labour did introduce it 100% you would have fk all to say.....

You believe in democracy? Great. If that's the case, you'll obviously agree that there should be a second Referendum, not just on the terms, but on whether to leave or stay.

I believe in everyone doing taking responsibility for themselves to ensure they have the ID so they can do the democratic thing and vote, it’s not hard to get the required ID.

Second referendum? Are you going to start a whine about that now also? I can hear a harmony of whining......  

Gotta go soon. Thanks for playing. All answers pretty much as predicted.

I’ll be around I’m not running away. You haven’t provided a compelling case for your argument, but instead tried to make excuses for people not being responsible for their own actions when it would be pretty easy to get the required ID to vote. Always the lefty way, make excuses and shirk personal responsibility.

Thanks for the whine anyway, it’s always fun  

I think I have, and I think you understand it but are deliberately ignoring it. 'Personal responsibility' is just a right-wing mantra for excluding people who don't match up (who, conveniently, happen to be just some of the people you are happy to exclude).

No, because you don’t know that, as has been said already some of the poor people are likely to be ‘thicko brexiteers’ and they probably vote UKIP or tory, some of these would have been natural labour voters previously so once again your reasoning does not stand up.

[MintTrav]

In 2017, there were 28 cases of alleged in-person voter fraud throughout the whole country.

Yesterday, the government trialled voter ID in five Councils to deal with this non-existent problem. In very limited observations, Democracy Volunteers observed almost 2% of voters who attempted to vote being turned away for not having ID, not including those who turned around themselves when they saw signs spelling out the requirement or those who were put off from trying at all. One case of attempted personation was observed.

If the Conservatives are planning to impose voter ID throughout the country in order to suppress poorer people voting for other parties, the trial was a significant success.

https://democracyvolunteersdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/voter-id-pilot-areas-special-report-2018.pdf

You need ID for so many things these days.  Anyone who can’t bring the ID is stupid or lazy.  Why do you seem to imply that it is only the poor who are morons?  Surely this impacts f*ckwits of all standings?

That isn't even where the argument is. There is a legitimate debate about whether everyone should carry ID, but whether the poor are disproportionately affected isn't in question. It is well-established from other countries that it is the poor who are affected by this. Check out Black disenfranchisement in the US for starters.

Why does it impact anyone unless they are thick or lazy?  What person on the electoral role doesn’t have 2 items of a bank card/council tax letter/bank statement/driving licence/poll card/utility bill.  Idiocy doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.....

Yes, they are more disorganised/lazy/undeserving than us. Therefore they should not be allowed to vote?

You are concerned with how they should be. No doubt they should be better organised, etc, but we need to deal with how they are, not how they should be. These are people who have made the effort to go and vote, and we want to create artificial barriers to stop them from doing so. The fact is that there are people who don't have the documents. There are plenty who do but don't carry them, or forgot to bring them. Why should people have to go home again to get random documents and make a second journey? Or maybe not get to come back at all?

It is achieving nothing.  There is no problem with personation. It isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut, cos there is no nut. It is just a blatant attempt to prevent people from voting. In the absence of a personation problem, anyone who supports this restriction doesn't give two hoots about democracy and is only interested in improving the position of right-wing parties by underhand methods.

Sorry but having read the list of possible things they could have used for ID (a very wide range of things) I’ve decided you are talking a load of bollox and just using it as an excuse to have a whine about the Tories. Had Labour implemented this you wouldn’t have a word to say about it. People need to be responsible for their own shit and not blame others.

What’s on your whine list about the Tories tomorrow?

This is an important issue and you are pretending not to understand the implications. But you don't care about democracy, do you? All you are interested in is the right result. Go on - admit it.

Not in this life or the next, if people can’t produce any of the wide range of possible ID they can use then tough shit. I also stand by my comment if labour had done this you would have fk all to say, it’s just a whine......

It is a serious issue.  Denying 2% of the population a vote when margins ard so tight for no good reasion is a pretty shitty thing to do.  Poor people have less sources of ID than rich, so it isn't straightforward.   There aren't many with no access to bank accounts, but dare say not many of them vote Conservative.

Tbf, anyone who doesn't have a bank account is very unlikely to vote at all I guess and even if they did want to there's a good chance they're a racist thicko as likely to vote UKIP/ Tory as Labour. Hard to know who to vote for when you're a thicko these days.

This all detracts a bit from the central point though about motivations and if the motivations were to stop opposition voters voting then it's pernicious - not sure you can draw parallels with US black disenfranchisment though, it's not so clear cut here in terms of how someone who is poor will vote.. especially since Brexit fked all the traditional dividing lines up.

Thanks Woodsey, I knew you'd admit it. I'd say it's unlikely Labour would introduce it because, funnily enough, it seems to be right-wing parties that do so. I wonder why that is.

I didn’t admit anything so you’re talking more bollox, and you don’t know if labour would introduce it or not so you that’s even more bollox again.

As I said it’s just a whine, and if labour did introduce it 100% you would have fk all to say.....

You believe in democracy? Great. If that's the case, you'll obviously agree that there should be a second Referendum, not just on the terms, but on whether to leave or stay.

I believe in everyone doing taking responsibility for themselves to ensure they have the ID so they can do the democratic thing and vote, it’s not hard to get the required ID.

Second referendum? Are you going to start a whine about that now also? I can hear a harmony of whining......  

Gotta go soon. Thanks for playing. All answers pretty much as predicted.

I’ll be around I’m not running away. You haven’t provided a compelling case for your argument, but instead tried to make excuses for people not being responsible for their own actions when it would be pretty easy to get the required ID to vote. Always the lefty way, make excuses and shirk personal responsibility.

Thanks for the whine anyway, it’s always fun  

I think I have, and I think you understand it but are deliberately ignoring it. 'Personal responsibility' is just a right-wing mantra for excluding people who don't match up (who, conveniently, happen to be just some of the people you are happy to exclude).

No, because you don’t know that, as has been said already some of the poor people are likely to be ‘thicko brexiteers’ and they probably vote UKIP or tory, some of these would have been natural labour voters previously so once again your reasoning does not stand up.

Some. You are surely not disputing that, in general, Labour is stronger in poorer areas and Tories are stronger in better-off places? Not exceptions or 'some', but overall? This is getting pointless.

[Woodsey]

In 2017, there were 28 cases of alleged in-person voter fraud throughout the whole country.

Yesterday, the government trialled voter ID in five Councils to deal with this non-existent problem. In very limited observations, Democracy Volunteers observed almost 2% of voters who attempted to vote being turned away for not having ID, not including those who turned around themselves when they saw signs spelling out the requirement or those who were put off from trying at all. One case of attempted personation was observed.

If the Conservatives are planning to impose voter ID throughout the country in order to suppress poorer people voting for other parties, the trial was a significant success.

https://democracyvolunteersdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/voter-id-pilot-areas-special-report-2018.pdf

You need ID for so many things these days.  Anyone who can’t bring the ID is stupid or lazy.  Why do you seem to imply that it is only the poor who are morons?  Surely this impacts f*ckwits of all standings?

That isn't even where the argument is. There is a legitimate debate about whether everyone should carry ID, but whether the poor are disproportionately affected isn't in question. It is well-established from other countries that it is the poor who are affected by this. Check out Black disenfranchisement in the US for starters.

Why does it impact anyone unless they are thick or lazy?  What person on the electoral role doesn’t have 2 items of a bank card/council tax letter/bank statement/driving licence/poll card/utility bill.  Idiocy doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.....

Yes, they are more disorganised/lazy/undeserving than us. Therefore they should not be allowed to vote?

You are concerned with how they should be. No doubt they should be better organised, etc, but we need to deal with how they are, not how they should be. These are people who have made the effort to go and vote, and we want to create artificial barriers to stop them from doing so. The fact is that there are people who don't have the documents. There are plenty who do but don't carry them, or forgot to bring them. Why should people have to go home again to get random documents and make a second journey? Or maybe not get to come back at all?

It is achieving nothing.  There is no problem with personation. It isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut, cos there is no nut. It is just a blatant attempt to prevent people from voting. In the absence of a personation problem, anyone who supports this restriction doesn't give two hoots about democracy and is only interested in improving the position of right-wing parties by underhand methods.

Sorry but having read the list of possible things they could have used for ID (a very wide range of things) I’ve decided you are talking a load of bollox and just using it as an excuse to have a whine about the Tories. Had Labour implemented this you wouldn’t have a word to say about it. People need to be responsible for their own shit and not blame others.

What’s on your whine list about the Tories tomorrow?

This is an important issue and you are pretending not to understand the implications. But you don't care about democracy, do you? All you are interested in is the right result. Go on - admit it.

Not in this life or the next, if people can’t produce any of the wide range of possible ID they can use then tough shit. I also stand by my comment if labour had done this you would have fk all to say, it’s just a whine......

It is a serious issue.  Denying 2% of the population a vote when margins ard so tight for no good reasion is a pretty shitty thing to do.  Poor people have less sources of ID than rich, so it isn't straightforward.   There aren't many with no access to bank accounts, but dare say not many of them vote Conservative.

Tbf, anyone who doesn't have a bank account is very unlikely to vote at all I guess and even if they did want to there's a good chance they're a racist thicko as likely to vote UKIP/ Tory as Labour. Hard to know who to vote for when you're a thicko these days.

This all detracts a bit from the central point though about motivations and if the motivations were to stop opposition voters voting then it's pernicious - not sure you can draw parallels with US black disenfranchisment though, it's not so clear cut here in terms of how someone who is poor will vote.. especially since Brexit fked all the traditional dividing lines up.

Thanks Woodsey, I knew you'd admit it. I'd say it's unlikely Labour would introduce it because, funnily enough, it seems to be right-wing parties that do so. I wonder why that is.

I didn’t admit anything so you’re talking more bollox, and you don’t know if labour would introduce it or not so you that’s even more bollox again.

As I said it’s just a whine, and if labour did introduce it 100% you would have fk all to say.....

You believe in democracy? Great. If that's the case, you'll obviously agree that there should be a second Referendum, not just on the terms, but on whether to leave or stay.

I believe in everyone doing taking responsibility for themselves to ensure they have the ID so they can do the democratic thing and vote, it’s not hard to get the required ID.

Second referendum? Are you going to start a whine about that now also? I can hear a harmony of whining......  

Gotta go soon. Thanks for playing. All answers pretty much as predicted.

I’ll be around I’m not running away. You haven’t provided a compelling case for your argument, but instead tried to make excuses for people not being responsible for their own actions when it would be pretty easy to get the required ID to vote. Always the lefty way, make excuses and shirk personal responsibility.

Thanks for the whine anyway, it’s always fun  

I think I have, and I think you understand it but are deliberately ignoring it. 'Personal responsibility' is just a right-wing mantra for excluding people who don't match up (who, conveniently, happen to be just some of the people you are happy to exclude).

No, because you don’t know that, as has been said already some of the poor people are likely to be ‘thicko brexiteers’ and they probably vote UKIP or tory, some of these would have been natural labour voters previously so once again your reasoning does not stand up.

Some. You are surely not disputing that, in general, Labour is stronger in poorer areas and Tories are stronger in better-off places? Not exceptions or 'some', but overall? This is getting pointless.

Just saying it’s not as cut and dried as it once was because of the upheaval has caused. But still it’s not hard to get the required ID, excuses don’t cut it. But mostly I’m calling you out for being a whining point scoring hypocrite who wouldn’t have said a bean if it was labour that brought it in.

I actually don’t see the big deal, I get asked for ID for picking up letters from the post office, for something far more important like voting it does make sense to prevent fraud.

[DungBeetle]

Looks like the left wing have conceded that thick lazy voters belong to them over voter ID.  At least that kills the narrative that thicko racists are the only reason Labour don’t get a landslide.

Ultimately it’s another pathetic excuse for why the lefties get crushed alongside the horrific press and the thickit racists not understanding left wing utopia.

Play it again.

[RickBFA]

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/164609/Electoral-fraud-review-final-report.pdf

Let’s put to bed this total nonsense from Mint about ID and some plot by the Tories.

The above is a link to the electoral commission on electoral fraud (hardly a mouth piece for the Tories)

See page 5, I quote “Finally, we should move to a system where voters are required to produce identification at polling stations. We gathered substantial evidence during our review that a lack of requirement for ID is both an actual and perceived weakness in the system. This would introduce a new requirement for voters casting their ballot in a polling station and we have considered carefully whether this will deter voters from taking part. Our conclusion, based on the evidence we gathered during the review, is that this risk can be managed  and it is therefore right to make this change, for the sake of the benefits it will bring in terms of improving the security of the system. A similar requirement is already exists in Northern Ireland, where ID to vote has been required since 2002, as well as in many other countries.”

[kukushkin88]

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/164609/Electoral-fraud-review-final-report.pdf

Let’s put to bed this total nonsense from Mint about ID and some plot by the Tories.

The above is a link to the electoral commission on electoral fraud (hardly a mouth piece for the Tories)

See page 5, I quote “Finally, we should move to a system where voters are required to produce identification at polling stations. We gathered substantial evidence during our review that a lack of requirement for ID is both an actual and perceived weakness in the system. This would introduce a new requirement for voters casting their ballot in a polling station and we have considered carefully whether this will deter voters from taking part. Our conclusion, based on the evidence we gathered during the review, is that this risk can be managed  and it is therefore right to make this change, for the sake of the benefits it will bring in terms of improving the security of the system. A similar requirement is already exists in Northern Ireland, where ID to vote has been required since 2002, as well as in many other countries.”

You can't be serious? Read it, think.

[kukushkin88]

More democracy, not less.

[Cf]

To be fair I’ve for a long time thought it absurd I just walk into my polling station, give my address, say yes to my name, and that’s that.