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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2382970 times)
StuartHopkin
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« Reply #14145 on: September 27, 2018, 01:04:27 PM »

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?


All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #14146 on: September 27, 2018, 02:10:21 PM »

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?


All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?


A big part of austerity is the government not spending money on essential public services. The problems that the funding previously helped to deal with don’t go anywhere though. So what happens? The articles I linked and the studies they cite seem to suggest the very poorest have been borrowing money to survive. The ONS said the poorest 10% of UK households spent 250% of what they earnt in financial year ending in 2017.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #14147 on: September 27, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?


All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?


A big part of austerity is the government not spending money on essential public services. The problems that the funding previously helped to deal with don’t go anywhere though. So what happens? The articles I linked and the studies they cite seem to suggest the very poorest have been borrowing money to survive. The ONS said the poorest 10% of UK households spent 250% of what they earnt in financial year ending in 2017.

The top 10% spent 50% of what they earnt. (From the same ONS Study)
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Jon MW
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« Reply #14148 on: September 27, 2018, 03:02:30 PM »

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?


All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?


A big part of austerity is the government not spending money on essential public services. The problems that the funding previously helped to deal with don’t go anywhere though. So what happens? The articles I linked and the studies they cite seem to suggest the very poorest have been borrowing money to survive. The ONS said the poorest 10% of UK households spent 250% of what they earnt in financial year ending in 2017.

I'm guessing the poor aren't spending their money on pot holes and topping up doctor's pay packets; what is actually being paid for in personal debt that used to be paid for by the government?

I think that might be the figures we're looking for.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #14149 on: September 27, 2018, 03:51:22 PM »

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?


All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?


A big part of austerity is the government not spending money on essential public services. The problems that the funding previously helped to deal with don’t go anywhere though. So what happens? The articles I linked and the studies they cite seem to suggest the very poorest have been borrowing money to survive. The ONS said the poorest 10% of UK households spent 250% of what they earnt in financial year ending in 2017.

I'm guessing the poor aren't spending their money on pot holes and topping up doctor's pay packets; what is actually being paid for in personal debt that used to be paid for by the government?

I think that might be the figures we're looking for.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/14/austerity-poor-disability-george-osborne-tories

Equality and Human Rights Comission Study. Jonathan Portes looks to have decent credentials in the subject area as well.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/world/europe/uk-austerity-poverty.amp.html

It’s quite long but doesn’t waste many words and I think it addresses your point.

Obviously not repairing the roads or funding the fire service or police and decimating regulation of the environment (the list goes on and on) is all bad but the impact on the NHS and the very poor seems worse.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #14150 on: September 27, 2018, 04:02:03 PM »

It’s a bit emotive but reflects real situations:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/uk-austerity-child-poverty.amp.html
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roshambo
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« Reply #14151 on: September 27, 2018, 04:32:08 PM »


Cant afford to feed....don't breed
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #14152 on: September 27, 2018, 11:57:28 PM »

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/labour-tory-tax-plans-measure-195503790.html

Interesting analysis on sky about Labour and Tory tax plans.

“Labour plans will give us the highest tax’s since 1948”

This one is good. Did you see the end when he calls 2010 (social mobility) now (atm)? Also more tax or killing the poor and vulnerable? Take your pick. You seem sure you’re right though, so there’ll be some evidence.........please go ahead and propose a better solution.
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RickBFA
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« Reply #14153 on: September 28, 2018, 07:47:32 AM »

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/labour-tory-tax-plans-measure-195503790.html

Interesting analysis on sky about Labour and Tory tax plans.

“Labour plans will give us the highest tax’s since 1948”

This one is good. Did you see the end when he calls 2010 (social mobility) now (atm)? Also more tax or killing the poor and vulnerable? Take your pick. You seem sure you’re right though, so there’ll be some evidence.........please go ahead and propose a better solution.

I saw the end and that bit was a bit weird.

The point he made which was valid (and what I was commenting on) was that Labour will give us the highest taxes for 70 years plus.

It’s a fundamental difference in philosophy. I want the State to have safety nets in place for the poorest but I don’t believe in a large state system, aggressive tax and spend policies, re-nationalisation etc.



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TightEnd
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« Reply #14154 on: September 28, 2018, 07:50:58 AM »

UK appoints food supplies minister amid fears of no-deal Brexit
MP David Rutley, an ex-Asda and PepsiCo executive, will oversee protection of supplies

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/26/uk-appoints-food-supplies-minister-amid-fears-of-no-deal-brexit
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« Reply #14155 on: September 28, 2018, 07:51:54 AM »

For 2 years "flabbergasted Brexiteers" have failed to grasp the EU position on Brexit and single market, even though they have been told time and time again. says Brussels chief Frans Timmermans.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/27/brexiters-failed-to-grasp-significance-of-single-market-to-eu-says-brussels-chief-frans-timmermans
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« Reply #14156 on: September 28, 2018, 09:15:03 AM »

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/labour-tory-tax-plans-measure-195503790.html

Interesting analysis on sky about Labour and Tory tax plans.

“Labour plans will give us the highest tax’s since 1948”

This one is good. Did you see the end when he calls 2010 (social mobility) now (atm)? Also more tax or killing the poor and vulnerable? Take your pick. You seem sure you’re right though, so there’ll be some evidence.........please go ahead and propose a better solution.

Is it really a simple binary choice?

Increased tax rates, ‘squeezing the rich till the pips squeak’ as it were, is no guarantee of a better life for the poor and vulnerable. History shows us that governments of any hue are appallingly bad managers of budgets and that state control of an industry tends to lead to inefficiencies and waste.

On the topic of state control though - I would be inclined to support a return to state ownership/control of the water and sewage industries. I see no public good in these essential services being operated as profit centres where ongoing investment in repairs and development compete with shareholders’ interests for money.
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« Reply #14157 on: September 28, 2018, 09:36:35 AM »

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/labour-tory-tax-plans-measure-195503790.html

Interesting analysis on sky about Labour and Tory tax plans.

“Labour plans will give us the highest tax’s since 1948”

This one is good. Did you see the end when he calls 2010 (social mobility) now (atm)? Also more tax or killing the poor and vulnerable? Take your pick. You seem sure you’re right though, so there’ll be some evidence.........please go ahead and propose a better solution.

Is it really a simple binary choice?

Increased tax rates, ‘squeezing the rich till the pips squeak’ as it were, is no guarantee of a better life for the poor and vulnerable. History shows us that governments of any hue are appallingly bad managers of budgets and that state control of an industry tends to lead to inefficiencies and waste.

On the topic of state control though - I would be inclined to support a return to state ownership/control of the water and sewage industries. I see no public good in these essential services being operated as profit centres where ongoing investment in repairs and development compete with shareholders’ interests for money.

First question, I think it’s about balance and there’s a compelling argument that says we have it very wrong at the moment. Just in the last couple of pages the inequality is laid bare. Richest 10% spend half their money, poorest 10% 2.5 times their money (fiscal year ending 2017). Lowest corporation tax in the G20, while people decide between eating and feeding/clothing their children.

I’m thinking balance again, we could have a Conservative government with a modicum of social responsibility, I’d take that in the situation we find ourselves. We’ve all been conditioned to hate New Labour and there are some valid reasons to do so. They were quite a bit like Conservatives and had had some social responsibility., people’s lives got better.

The third point, I feel strongly on this and completely agree.
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« Reply #14158 on: September 28, 2018, 09:42:54 AM »

UK govt spending is 41% of GDP.

What should it be?
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« Reply #14159 on: September 28, 2018, 09:47:22 AM »

UK govt spending is 41% of GDP.

What should it be?

Targeted more appropriately toward those who need assistance the most.
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