The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.

Owen Jones propensity to distill complex matters down to ridiculous bite sized, shock jock, identity based statements of FACT is fkn tiresome

Totally agree on Owen Jones, very much feels like lowering ourselves to their level. I preferred when it was a clear divide between well researched truth and 🐕 whistle lies. It wasn’t really working out well at the ballot box though. I also don’t think we are his target audience.

[TightEnd]

German TV news now saying no deal Brexit is “most likely” and that the situation in the UK is “totally crazy” with “no good options”...

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Es-ist-totaler-Wahnsinn-was-passiert-article20642153.html

[RED-DOG]

German TV news now saying no deal Brexit is “most likely” and that the situation in the UK is “totally crazy” with “no good options”...

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Es-ist-totaler-Wahnsinn-was-passiert-article20642153.html

Völlig korrekt. (meiner meinung nach natürlich)

[nirvana]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.

Owen Jones propensity to distill complex matters down to ridiculous bite sized, shock jock, identity based statements of FACT is fkn tiresome

Totally agree on Owen Jones, very much feels like lowering ourselves to their level. I preferred when it was a clear divide between well researched truth and 🐕 whistle lies. It wasn’t really working out well at the ballot box though. I also don’t think we are his target audience.

I wonder who his target audience is - I kind of admire his campaigning spirit but I can't see how his style could win anyone over to his view on any particular issue.

I've seen him do a lot of considered, polite, informative interviews with people who have views diametrically opposed to his and quite liked him as a result. But he seems to have degenerated into a one-trick foghorn.

[Tal]

German TV news now saying no deal Brexit is “most likely” and that the situation in the UK is “totally crazy” with “no good options”...

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Es-ist-totaler-Wahnsinn-was-passiert-article20642153.html

Tone seems to be "No seriously, you have no idea how bad it is over there!"

Es is totaler Wahrsinn.

Es gibt keine gute Lösung

I mean this is to be expected of course. Hardly like they will be saying how well we're doing.

[Jon MW]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.
...

It somewhat reminds me of Labour's idea to scrap all tuition fees irrespective of whether you graduate and work for a charity for peanuts or graduate and work for a hedge fund for millions.

i.e. something that sounds good but benefits rich people an awful lot for a 'socialist' government.

[nirvana]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.
...

It somewhat reminds me of Labour's idea to scrap all tuition fees irrespective of whether you graduate and work for a charity for peanuts or graduate and work for a hedge fund for millions.

i.e. something that sounds good but benefits rich people an awful lot for a 'socialist' government.

Yep, surely it doesn't take that much time and thought to make more considered & less wasteful proposals

[kukushkin88]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.

Owen Jones propensity to distill complex matters down to ridiculous bite sized, shock jock, identity based statements of FACT is fkn tiresome

Totally agree on Owen Jones, very much feels like lowering ourselves to their level. I preferred when it was a clear divide between well researched truth and 🐕 whistle lies. It wasn’t really working out well at the ballot box though. I also don’t think we are his target audience.

I wonder who his target audience is - I kind of admire his campaigning spirit but I can't see how his style could win anyone over to his view on any particular issue.

I've seen him do a lot of considered, polite, informative interviews with people who have views diametrically opposed to his and quite liked him as a result. But he seems to have degenerated into a one-trick foghorn.

“one-trick foghorn” :-). We risk doing him a disservice, he’s bright, thoughtful and won’t be doing this by accident. With his writing, he kind of did a Dawkins. ‘Sefish Gene’ excellent, ‘Blind Watchmaker’ excellent, ‘God Delusion’ gratuitously abusive. ‘Chavs’ excellent, ‘Establishment ‘ it’s hostile and will alienate people because of it.

So, the ‘one trick foghorn’, the right does so well with the one trick dog whistler’s, Clarkson, Littlejohn, Hartley-Brewer (when she was on QT, I was nearly sure she was reading out Mantis’s posts from here), Katie Hopkins, Toby Young, Fraser Nelson (he should be better), Danny Fink (on austerity “the ideology of 2+2 = 4”, yeah it’s that simple, I used to be a fan. Matthew Parris, Tim Montgomery. The left just can’t compete with that onslaught. I’m probably wrong about Nelson and Finkelstein but I’m sure they’re complicit in the Crosby culture of the one trick dog whistle. Owen Jones seems to have adopted their strategy, it’s a big hit to take for the team, to be a jerk. Maybe it’ll win votes.

I think the target audience is people who aren’t interested in politics, a demographic the right has monopolised since Thatcher/Friedman and Rupert were running the show.

[Doobs]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.

Owen Jones propensity to distill complex matters down to ridiculous bite sized, shock jock, identity based statements of FACT is fkn tiresome

Totally agree on Owen Jones, very much feels like lowering ourselves to their level. I preferred when it was a clear divide between well researched truth and 🐕 whistle lies. It wasn’t really working out well at the ballot box though. I also don’t think we are his target audience.

I wonder who his target audience is - I kind of admire his campaigning spirit but I can't see how his style could win anyone over to his view on any particular issue.

I've seen him do a lot of considered, polite, informative interviews with people who have views diametrically opposed to his and quite liked him as a result. But he seems to have degenerated into a one-trick foghorn.

Think he is very up and down too.  I hear stuff where I think he has got it so right, other times I find myself saying "oh, fuck off".   My opinion of him seems to change with the wind too.   

[Doobs]

Noticed on my facebook that leave.EU are back promoting Blue Wave.   Seems their algorithms don't work so well anymore?   

It is a bit worrying if they start getting as much influence on a major political party as Momentum has.   Dare say the Conservatives are easier to rig too, with their much lower membership base.   Will be a delicious irony if the Russians start running the Tories. 

[kukushkin88]

HS2 is topical. They’ve spent £4 billion so far, out of the 56. One qualifier, I think the website has a touch of the conspiracy theorist about it. I’m assured this is legit though.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/513745/response/1239864/attach/html/3/FOI18%202095%20response.pdf.html

[Woodsey]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.

Owen Jones propensity to distill complex matters down to ridiculous bite sized, shock jock, identity based statements of FACT is fkn tiresome

Totally agree on Owen Jones, very much feels like lowering ourselves to their level. I preferred when it was a clear divide between well researched truth and 🐕 whistle lies. It wasn’t really working out well at the ballot box though. I also don’t think we are his target audience.

I wonder who his target audience is - I kind of admire his campaigning spirit but I can't see how his style could win anyone over to his view on any particular issue.

I've seen him do a lot of considered, polite, informative interviews with people who have views diametrically opposed to his and quite liked him as a result. But he seems to have degenerated into a one-trick foghorn.

“one-trick foghorn” :-). We risk doing him a disservice, he’s bright, thoughtful and won’t be doing this by accident. With his writing, he kind of did a Dawkins. ‘Sefish Gene’ excellent, ‘Blind Watchmaker’ excellent, ‘God Delusion’ gratuitously abusive. ‘Chavs’ excellent, ‘Establishment ‘ it’s hostile and will alienate people because of it.

So, the ‘one trick foghorn’, the right does so well with the one trick dog whistler’s, Clarkson, Littlejohn, Hartley-Brewer (when she was on QT, I was nearly sure she was reading out Mantis’s posts from here), Katie Hopkins, Toby Young, Fraser Nelson (he should be better), Danny Fink (on austerity “the ideology of 2+2 = 4”, yeah it’s that simple, I used to be a fan. Matthew Parris, Tim Montgomery. The left just can’t compete with that onslaught. I’m probably wrong about Nelson and Finkelstein but I’m sure they’re complicit in the Crosby culture of the one trick dog whistle. Owen Jones seems to have adopted their strategy, it’s a big hit to take for the team, to be a jerk. Maybe it’ll win votes.

I think the target audience is people who aren’t interested in politics, a demographic the right has monopolised since Thatcher/Friedman and Rupert were running the show.

Yup, in fairness I think using his links to back up a point would be akin to using the Daily Mail and at a stretch Katie Hopkins and deserve the same level of pisstaking.....

[kukushkin88]

I like to think of myself as generally left leaning but I think I'm having a crisis.

One of the policies coming forward from the conference last week was 30 hours of free child care for 2,3 & 4 year olds. This will be a universal benefit. If socialism is the language of priorities how can we justify a single penny of our money being given to a couple earning say £200k a year for a benefit like this.

Owen Jones propensity to distill complex matters down to ridiculous bite sized, shock jock, identity based statements of FACT is fkn tiresome

Totally agree on Owen Jones, very much feels like lowering ourselves to their level. I preferred when it was a clear divide between well researched truth and 🐕 whistle lies. It wasn’t really working out well at the ballot box though. I also don’t think we are his target audience.

I wonder who his target audience is - I kind of admire his campaigning spirit but I can't see how his style could win anyone over to his view on any particular issue.

I've seen him do a lot of considered, polite, informative interviews with people who have views diametrically opposed to his and quite liked him as a result. But he seems to have degenerated into a one-trick foghorn.

“one-trick foghorn” :-). We risk doing him a disservice, he’s bright, thoughtful and won’t be doing this by accident. With his writing, he kind of did a Dawkins. ‘Sefish Gene’ excellent, ‘Blind Watchmaker’ excellent, ‘God Delusion’ gratuitously abusive. ‘Chavs’ excellent, ‘Establishment ‘ it’s hostile and will alienate people because of it.

So, the ‘one trick foghorn’, the right does so well with the one trick dog whistler’s, Clarkson, Littlejohn, Hartley-Brewer (when she was on QT, I was nearly sure she was reading out Mantis’s posts from here), Katie Hopkins, Toby Young, Fraser Nelson (he should be better), Danny Fink (on austerity “the ideology of 2+2 = 4”, yeah it’s that simple, I used to be a fan. Matthew Parris, Tim Montgomery. The left just can’t compete with that onslaught. I’m probably wrong about Nelson and Finkelstein but I’m sure they’re complicit in the Crosby culture of the one trick dog whistle. Owen Jones seems to have adopted their strategy, it’s a big hit to take for the team, to be a jerk. Maybe it’ll win votes.

I think the target audience is people who aren’t interested in politics, a demographic the right has monopolised since Thatcher/Friedman and Rupert were running the show.

Yup, in fairness I think using his links to back up a point would be akin to using the Daily Mail and at a stretch Katie Hopkins and deserve the same level of pisstaking.....

I agree it was a mistake to link him. I thought it might be funny, baiting the troll for comedy. It was a mistake though and I’m sorry.

[kukushkin88]

https://schoolcuts.org.uk/#!/

[TightEnd]

Huge numbers of Labour remain voters must be bitterly disappointed by Corbyn's betrayal of his promise to let members make policy. And his support for a Brexit they know will harm them.

LAB don't get a conference bounce with Opinium - in fact rather the reverse

CON 39+2
LAB 36-3
LD 9=