The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Sheriff Fatman]

The shouty stuff and name calling is unedifying, though. No one has ever persuaded anyone by being louder or more offensive.

You’ve just shot down Momentum’s entire social media presence with a single sentence.

I honestly have no clue whom it’s supposed to win over who isn’t already a confirmed Corbyn supporter.

I hate the Tories with a passion, but there’s zero chance I’ll support Labour in its current state.  Neither are fit to govern but there’s no credible alternative.  Spoiling a ballot paper is currently the most appealing option in a General Election.

[BigAdz]

I love reading this thread. A must check every day.

Great to read different views and different contexts.

The shouty stuff and name calling is unedifying, though. No one has ever persuaded anyone by being louder or more offensive.

I agree. The Labour remainers really have shown their true colours today effing and blinding as their backs have been put to the wall and given some non data based arguments they struggled to cope with.

All good fun watching them huff and puff  and grind their teeth til they resort to the usual troll calling to people who don't agree.......

[Woodsey]

I’m away for a weekend and it all kicks off 

[bobAlike]

I’m away for a weekend and it all kicks off 

Drunken flight to Prestatyn?

[Woodsey]

I’m away for a weekend and it all kicks off 

Drunken flight to Prestatyn?

Amsterdam!

[MANTIS01]

Funny how Macron, in desperate trouble over the French economy, starts agitating friction & creating uncertainty.

Then personally hosts a private little dinner with the heads of Nissan, Vauxhall and Jaguar promising to be more 'business-friendly'

blatant really.

This whole 'protecting the union' line is so lol

[Pokerpops]

The reality is that Remain squealing for an elongated period of time has created an environment where the French leader can step forward with confident arrogance. It's amazing to think that UK buys more from France than they buy from us and yet their PM is the one talking tough. Overall you would think being treated as valuable partners and international allies would be standard behaviour but EU have shown contempt throughout. How on earth do you really explain that? Well Remain great work. Not sure what the end game is but just poking your head out of Macron's petticoats and squealing about the sky collapsing isn't a great look for Britain.

Oh come on what a load of bunkum. Sensible remainers have pointed out facts for about three years now, for example that the EU will not compromise and that a deal is very tough to achieve and the consequences in terms of economics are no way compensated for by some notional sense of great national identity and have been derided for project fear that has now turned into project fact

It is quite risible to see people like you refuse to own the looming disaster that you both voted for and defend constantly

Own it, you leave flat-earthers are responsible for it.

As Ive said before the sad bit is the remoaners who constantly chuck names, deride and heckle those of us that looked for change, and cant even look for any positives whatsoever. During this whole process I have often wondered if this is a good idea, but I bet from the other side you and others haven't even considered any positives of leaving, just spend your time looking for another article that backs up or indoctrinates you further....

oh i have looked and i listen. I also post all sorts of articles. Again, if they are just "here he goes again" from you and others i will stop. Really,why spend my time doing it?

the main thing i find from listening to Rees-Mogg and others is positives are "taking back control" and a greater sense of national identity,this from the him and sensible leavers rather than those who primarily see it as an anti-immigration vehicle and at its worst xenophobia and racism

Compared to the downsides, which are many and clear, i think they are in cloud cuckoo land

Unfortunately many people voted leave as a vote against the political class status quo,particularly working class people feeling threatened and left behind. Undoubtedly genuine reasons which have been discussed a lot. I don't think Brexit solves these concerns, and in that its highly likely especially in a hard brexit scenario to lead to far higher unemployment makes the rationale for those votes even more flawed.   

Keep doing it Tighty, although there are a lot of articles I can’t read due to them being subscription only, it does expand our understanding.

I voted Leave because, in my view, the EU is a flawed, corrupt and wasteful institution. I’ve seen nothing in the period since the vote that changes that view.

It is extremely difficult to move away from a vast free trade area in a globalised economy that depends on just in time supply chains

really everything else is secondary to that. No one thinks that on the leave side. fewer even think about it but its the effect of leaving on every day life that people still don't get

To be a remainer you don't have to disagree that the EU is flawed, or be happy with the political project element of the institutions...and of course they blocked Cameron's attempts at reform (if they had given more then maybe it would have been different)

but not being in it is worse. With no deal and with these supply chains coming to ahalt every single one of us will find out about that really fast.

The problem with staying in the EU despite it’s flaws is that it’s a bit like a battered wife (or husband) staying in the hope that their abuser will change.

The EU isn’t going to change.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/06/juncker-criticises-british-media-and-urges-limits-to-press-freedom

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mep-expenses-details-eu-european-parliament-court-edited-a8553731.html

So, let’s accept that leaving is a good thing and set about doing it on the best terms possible. It’s in everyone’s interests to resolve the issues surrounding JIT supply chains, aviation et al. Even the EUrocrats know this.

[MANTIS01]

Anti-Brexit dog owners are to take their pets on a march to parliament on Sunday to call for a second vote on EU membership. The campaigners, who hope thousands of protesters and canines will rally, claim that leaving the bloc will harm the UK’s estimated 54 million pets.

[BigAdz]

Just watched a wonderful short film on FB made by BBC 3 called Breaking up with a Remoaner.

I hope I or someone can find a link to put it up.

[kukushkin88]

Just watched a wonderful short film on FB made by BBC 3 called Breaking up with a Remoaner.

I hope I or someone can find a link to put it up.

Morning,

I’m not sure but this should work (via FB)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2243826552508985&id=7519460786&_rdr

[RED-DOG]

I'm a Remoaner but I still thought that was excellent.

[BigAdz]

Thanks Kush.

For balance, there is one done from the other side of the coin, but cant bring myself to watch it yet.

[TightEnd]

Your periodic reminder that the UK Brexit choice is a border, on the island of Ireland, or the Irish Sea, or an exceptionally close relationship with the EU.

The UK Government currently rules out all of these options.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/brexit-is-putting-the-north-s-fragile-peace-in-jeopardy-htv9rs8wd

'The Irish border is more than a shorthand for a legal conundrum...
It is a region where people live, where farms are tended, where small businesses are running, where children grow up in the hope of a much better life...
Such hope now increasingly feels naive.'

[TightEnd]

No one writes on Brexit with this degree of clarity like david green does.

this is balanced stuff

http://jackofkent.com/2018/10/why-remainers-should-allow-the-brexit-mandate-to-be-discharged/

[TightEnd]

another interesting take

Brexit: It's time to check our English privilege

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/10/08/brexit-it-s-time-to-check-our-english-privilege