The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

To be honest as a remain voter myself I quite like the Mantis approach.  My fellow remainer high pitched whines are so annoying. The decision has been made sco let’s make the best of it.  Too much pathetic squealing around.

Democracy fundamentally doesn’t work if you’re this dumb.

Read this again.

[kukushkin88]

How people think is the reality mate.

Take uncontrolled immigration, majority don't want it.

Put up all the charts you want, majority still don't want it. That's reality.

Do you think there’s a link between your very abstract interpretation of reality and the bizarre situation where the worst government in any of our lifetimes has a lead in the opinion polls? I think there might be.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/reality

It’s nearly the opposite of what you said :-) 1.2, 2 and 2.1 probably the highlights.

This every day, all day every day wtf?!

[BigAdz]

The reality is that Remain squealing for an elongated period of time has created an environment where the French leader can step forward with confident arrogance. It's amazing to think that UK buys more from France than they buy from us and yet their PM is the one talking tough. Overall you would think being treated as valuable partners and international allies would be standard behaviour but EU have shown contempt throughout. How on earth do you really explain that? Well Remain great work. Not sure what the end game is but just poking your head out of Macron's petticoats and squealing about the sky collapsing isn't a great look for Britain.

Oh come on what a load of bunkum. Sensible remainers have pointed out facts for about three years now, for example that the EU will not compromise and that a deal is very tough to achieve and the consequences in terms of economics are no way compensated for by some notional sense of great national identity and have been derided for project fear that has now turned into project fact

It is quite risible to see people like you refuse to own the looming disaster that you both voted for and defend constantly

Own it, you leave flat-earthers are responsible for it.

As Ive said before the sad bit is the remoaners who constantly chuck names, deride and heckle those of us that looked for change, and cant even look for any positives whatsoever. During this whole process I have often wondered if this is a good idea, but I bet from the other side you and others haven't even considered any positives of leaving, just spend your time looking for another article that backs up or indoctrinates you further....

[TightEnd]

The reality is that Remain squealing for an elongated period of time has created an environment where the French leader can step forward with confident arrogance. It's amazing to think that UK buys more from France than they buy from us and yet their PM is the one talking tough. Overall you would think being treated as valuable partners and international allies would be standard behaviour but EU have shown contempt throughout. How on earth do you really explain that? Well Remain great work. Not sure what the end game is but just poking your head out of Macron's petticoats and squealing about the sky collapsing isn't a great look for Britain.

Oh come on what a load of bunkum. Sensible remainers have pointed out facts for about three years now, for example that the EU will not compromise and that a deal is very tough to achieve and the consequences in terms of economics are no way compensated for by some notional sense of great national identity and have been derided for project fear that has now turned into project fact

It is quite risible to see people like you refuse to own the looming disaster that you both voted for and defend constantly

Own it, you leave flat-earthers are responsible for it.

As Ive said before the sad bit is the remoaners who constantly chuck names, deride and heckle those of us that looked for change, and cant even look for any positives whatsoever. During this whole process I have often wondered if this is a good idea, but I bet from the other side you and others haven't even considered any positives of leaving, just spend your time looking for another article that backs up or indoctrinates you further....

oh i have looked and i listen. I also post all sorts of articles. Again, if they are just "here he goes again" from you and others i will stop. Really,why spend my time doing it?

the main thing i find from listening to Rees-Mogg and others is positives are "taking back control" and a greater sense of national identity,this from the him and sensible leavers rather than those who primarily see it as an anti-immigration vehicle and at its worst xenophobia and racism

Compared to the downsides, which are many and clear, i think they are in cloud cuckoo land

Unfortunately many people voted leave as a vote against the political class status quo,particularly working class people feeling threatened and left behind. Undoubtedly genuine reasons which have been discussed a lot. I don't think Brexit solves these concerns, and in that its highly likely especially in a hard brexit scenario to lead to far higher unemployment makes the rationale for those votes even more flawed.   

[Pokerpops]

The reality is that Remain squealing for an elongated period of time has created an environment where the French leader can step forward with confident arrogance. It's amazing to think that UK buys more from France than they buy from us and yet their PM is the one talking tough. Overall you would think being treated as valuable partners and international allies would be standard behaviour but EU have shown contempt throughout. How on earth do you really explain that? Well Remain great work. Not sure what the end game is but just poking your head out of Macron's petticoats and squealing about the sky collapsing isn't a great look for Britain.

Oh come on what a load of bunkum. Sensible remainers have pointed out facts for about three years now, for example that the EU will not compromise and that a deal is very tough to achieve and the consequences in terms of economics are no way compensated for by some notional sense of great national identity and have been derided for project fear that has now turned into project fact

It is quite risible to see people like you refuse to own the looming disaster that you both voted for and defend constantly

Own it, you leave flat-earthers are responsible for it.

As Ive said before the sad bit is the remoaners who constantly chuck names, deride and heckle those of us that looked for change, and cant even look for any positives whatsoever. During this whole process I have often wondered if this is a good idea, but I bet from the other side you and others haven't even considered any positives of leaving, just spend your time looking for another article that backs up or indoctrinates you further....

oh i have looked and i listen. I also post all sorts of articles. Again, if they are just "here he goes again" from you and others i will stop. Really,why spend my time doing it?

the main thing i find from listening to Rees-Mogg and others is positives are "taking back control" and a greater sense of national identity,this from the him and sensible leavers rather than those who primarily see it as an anti-immigration vehicle and at its worst xenophobia and racism

Compared to the downsides, which are many and clear, i think they are in cloud cuckoo land

Unfortunately many people voted leave as a vote against the political class status quo,particularly working class people feeling threatened and left behind. Undoubtedly genuine reasons which have been discussed a lot. I don't think Brexit solves these concerns, and in that its highly likely especially in a hard brexit scenario to lead to far higher unemployment makes the rationale for those votes even more flawed.   

Keep doing it Tighty, although there are a lot of articles I can’t read due to them being subscription only, it does expand our understanding.

I voted Leave because, in my view, the EU is a flawed, corrupt and wasteful institution. I’ve seen nothing in the period since the vote that changes that view.

[MANTIS01]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

[TightEnd]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

lamenting financials and choice on the shelves is real life. consequences.

Untangling us in a globalised society with just in time manufacturing from a free trade area comes with vast consequences.

As does controlling immigration of useful contributors to society, and for example the NHS is going to feel it badly. From personal experience i can tell you it is already feeling it badly.

Already there are limits to immigration. No one was proposing unfettered immigration, there isn't that now.

[TightEnd]

The reality is that Remain squealing for an elongated period of time has created an environment where the French leader can step forward with confident arrogance. It's amazing to think that UK buys more from France than they buy from us and yet their PM is the one talking tough. Overall you would think being treated as valuable partners and international allies would be standard behaviour but EU have shown contempt throughout. How on earth do you really explain that? Well Remain great work. Not sure what the end game is but just poking your head out of Macron's petticoats and squealing about the sky collapsing isn't a great look for Britain.

Oh come on what a load of bunkum. Sensible remainers have pointed out facts for about three years now, for example that the EU will not compromise and that a deal is very tough to achieve and the consequences in terms of economics are no way compensated for by some notional sense of great national identity and have been derided for project fear that has now turned into project fact

It is quite risible to see people like you refuse to own the looming disaster that you both voted for and defend constantly

Own it, you leave flat-earthers are responsible for it.

As Ive said before the sad bit is the remoaners who constantly chuck names, deride and heckle those of us that looked for change, and cant even look for any positives whatsoever. During this whole process I have often wondered if this is a good idea, but I bet from the other side you and others haven't even considered any positives of leaving, just spend your time looking for another article that backs up or indoctrinates you further....

oh i have looked and i listen. I also post all sorts of articles. Again, if they are just "here he goes again" from you and others i will stop. Really,why spend my time doing it?

the main thing i find from listening to Rees-Mogg and others is positives are "taking back control" and a greater sense of national identity,this from the him and sensible leavers rather than those who primarily see it as an anti-immigration vehicle and at its worst xenophobia and racism

Compared to the downsides, which are many and clear, i think they are in cloud cuckoo land

Unfortunately many people voted leave as a vote against the political class status quo,particularly working class people feeling threatened and left behind. Undoubtedly genuine reasons which have been discussed a lot. I don't think Brexit solves these concerns, and in that its highly likely especially in a hard brexit scenario to lead to far higher unemployment makes the rationale for those votes even more flawed.   

Keep doing it Tighty, although there are a lot of articles I can’t read due to them being subscription only, it does expand our understanding.

I voted Leave because, in my view, the EU is a flawed, corrupt and wasteful institution. I’ve seen nothing in the period since the vote that changes that view.

It is extremely difficult to move away from a vast free trade area in a globalised economy that depends on just in time supply chains

really everything else is secondary to that. No one thinks that on the leave side. fewer even think about it but its the effect of leaving on every day life that people still don't get

To be a remainer you don't have to disagree that the EU is flawed, or be happy with the political project element of the institutions...and of course they blocked Cameron's attempts at reform (if they had given more then maybe it would have been different)

but not being in it is worse. With no deal and with these supply chains coming to ahalt every single one of us will find out about that really fast.

[kukushkin88]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

[BigAdz]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

lamenting financials and choice on the shelves is real life. consequences.

Untangling us in a globalised society with just in time manufacturing from a free trade area comes with vast consequences.

As does controlling immigration of useful contributors to society, and for example the NHS is going to feel it badly. From personal experience i can tell you it is already feeling it badly.

Already there are limits to immigration. No one was proposing unfettered immigration, there isn't that now.

My wife is a Sister in the major Oxford hospital. Ask her and her colleagues why the NHS is struggling and it is because of the amount of non uk or newly resident folk filling up the corridors .

Snowflakes would be up in arms at such a statement, but that is the word from the front line

[BigAdz]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

Limited= checks on background, proving you have some benefits you can provide your new country. Worth your admission costs.

Unlimited= any Tom dick or harry with nothing to offer, just taking benefits.

[TightEnd]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

lamenting financials and choice on the shelves is real life. consequences.

Untangling us in a globalised society with just in time manufacturing from a free trade area comes with vast consequences.

As does controlling immigration of useful contributors to society, and for example the NHS is going to feel it badly. From personal experience i can tell you it is already feeling it badly.

Already there are limits to immigration. No one was proposing unfettered immigration, there isn't that now.

My wife is a Sister in the major Oxford hospital. Ask her and her colleagues why the NHS is struggling and it is because of the amount of non uk or newly resident folk filling up the corridors .

Snowflakes would be up in arms at such a statement, but that is the word from the front line

My daughter is currently being treated by the NHS, they are having huge trouble recruiting staff, previously sourced the world over.

Many of the non UK nationals treating her are dedicated, hard working and kind. Several (can't say more than that, as i haven't spoken to them) are fearful of their life here after Brexit, whether they will stay/can stay etc

waiting lists and resourcing are also huge issues. waiting lists aren't helped by difficulty in recruiting staff

your term "snowflakes" is an insult really, meant as such and taken as such. Fuck off

[BigAdz]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

lamenting financials and choice on the shelves is real life. consequences.

Untangling us in a globalised society with just in time manufacturing from a free trade area comes with vast consequences.

As does controlling immigration of useful contributors to society, and for example the NHS is going to feel it badly. From personal experience i can tell you it is already feeling it badly.

Already there are limits to immigration. No one was proposing unfettered immigration, there isn't that now.

My wife is a Sister in the major Oxford hospital. Ask her and her colleagues why the NHS is struggling and it is because of the amount of non uk or newly resident folk filling up the corridors .

Snowflakes would be up in arms at such a statement, but that is the word from the front line

My daughter is currently being treated by the NHS, they are having huge trouble recruiting staff, previously sourced the world over.

Many of the non UK nationals treating her are dedicated, hard working and kind. Several (can't say more than that, as i haven't spoken to them) are fearful of their life here after Brexit, whether they will stay/can stay etc

waiting lists and resourcing are also huge issues. waiting lists aren't helped by difficulty in recruiting staff

your term "snowflakes" is an insult really, meant as such and taken as such. Fuck off

If I spoke to you like that I am sure I would be banned.......

Anyway, once again you are very keen to pass over my comment because you want to just make your point.

I agree we need more staff and if we have to recruit from abroad that is fine. That is controlled immigration. Not some fella off a boat who claims conditions in Nigeria are so bad he has to come and live here on benefits.

There you go, proving I can see both sides of the story without having to tell someone to fuck off because they can reason better than me.....

[TightEnd]

I apologise.

I feel strongly about this, but no excuse.

sorry.

rest stands :-)

[kukushkin88]

I apologise.

I feel strongly about this, but no excuse.

sorry.

rest stands :-)

Tighty you are a great guy, you don’t owe anyone anything on this thread, let alone an apology. The situation with your daughter is terrible, I don’t really know what to say but I admire your courage in dealing with it and I wish both you all the best. Is there anything we as a (BP) community can do to help?