The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Woodsey]

They were talking on the Racing Sunday Forum show earlier about the scaremongering the staggeringly ignorant RemOAN people had been touting that British horses would no longer be able to race abroad, or it would be so difficult with all the new paperwork/new quarentine regulations involved, make it unworkable, post Brexit.

It was pointed out that many horses from South/North America, Asia/Middle East travel without such hinderence, so why would we suddenly get rules even more stringent?  No one had any answers or even believed that is the way it would pan out.

It is a similar point, I have made before, about how we are made to think/feel we are, post brexit, going to be treated worse than the rest of the world by the EU, which none of our RemOAN friends have yet to answer.(in my opinion, of c)

Fyp, don’t be pussyfied by them mate 

[Doobs]

General snowflakery innit....

Don't you have to be born in the last 20 years to be called a snowflake for losing your shit on the forum? 

[Woodsey]

General snowflakery innit....

Don't you have to be born in the last 20 years to be called a snowflake for losing your shit on the forum? 

Don’t really care, but if they lose their shit at being called a snowflake in the first place it seems fair cop 

[kukushkin88]

General snowflakery innit....

Don't you have to be born in the last 20 years to be called a snowflake for losing your shit on the forum? 

It’s quite funny. I think:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(slang)

[kukushkin88]

This is my attitude to life, successful people, businesses and countries always evolve and find a way. Sadly lacking by many remoaners......

‘The fall of Nokia: How this Finnish city fought back’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-45727841/the-fall-of-nokia-how-this-finnish-city-fought-back

Up to the second comma, I agree. My rule (similar to yours) has always been that there are two ways to get ahead in the world:

1: Work harder than the competition.
2: Apply more intelligence than the competition.

Downhill after that though, people are nothing like businesses or countries and countries are nothing like businesses. With the three things being so different. We can’t imo really use the same language or admire the same characteristics when assessing what a successful version of each looks like. A reasonable and relevant example of this is that a country will get rich by saving up the pennies.

I’m reluctant to comment on the increasingly lame ‘Remoaner’ comment but I do have a question. Are you saying people who voted Leave are superior in some way? There has been extensive research in to voter demographics since the Referendum.

On to Finland:

https://tradingeconomics.com/finland/personal-income-tax-rate

https://borgenproject.org/poverty-rate-in-finland/

Looks like a well run country to me and whilst I love the story about Oulu, it’s not imo anywhere near the most impressive thing about Finland.

For comparison:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284306/united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts-income-tax/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom

The countries are different in so many ways so the merit of the comparison is limited, I’m sure there’s something to be learnt though. Here we are merrily on our way to 17% corporation tax.

Well I’d certainly say that people that crack on with life and make the best of a situation are certainly more superior than those that sit around and whine.....

Is that a response to the ‘Remoaner’ comment? Seems to me like the biggest whiners by far on the subject are you and the  🙏 Mantis. All I see from the ‘Remoaners’ is analysis of the subject and citation of the analysis of others, with just a bit of mocking the Leaver’s for not paying any attention to any of the analysis.

Busy day for me, so won’t be time for any responses. Apologies to all, even the trolls for being a prick at the weekend. Have a good day all.

Which is all well and good until we get scare stories about homeopathic levels of rat poo in our ginger biscuits.

scare or not the article is genuine, well sourced and its a fact (FACT) that US food standards are more lax than ours/EU's

the medical data quoted seems at least a cause for concern

Not read the article, but you are making it sound like we get no food from the US now. Maybe we dont? I dont know, but if this is true, I suspect we will start to become more self sufficient, if this is the alternative food sourcer........Brexit roolz

https://www.quora.com/What-does-Socrates-phrase-all-I-know-is-that-I-know-nothing-mean

Warning: Might be some crazy opinions on that website (looks like it’s sponsored/funded by some sort of religion). The first answer (Dave Straker) though, is just right imo.

The new(ish) rallying cries of the right:

“I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts” Michael Gove. Truly  a disgraceful thing for an intelligent man to say.

“My ignorance is equal to your knowledge” Asimov originally (a legend), of course he was identifying a flaw in democracy, the right wingers seem to like it though and it’s found a niche as an alternative definition of ‘democracy’. As in, criticism of an ill thought out ill informed decision gets shot down for being anti-democratic. (I’ll accept this as whining/squealing/remoaning if you like)

“I haven’t read the article but” Big Adz et al. Even adopted by one who used to identify with the left but not so much now that they are actually on the left, currently found in a transcendental state ;-).

Another busy one for me but this is TBC. Again, have a good day folks.

...and Adzy (who’s worried about people being sensitive) read this and lost his shit about being called a Neo-Nazi :-), you couldn’t make it up.

[BigAdz]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.


you are right, you cant make it up......

[kukushkin88]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.

you are right, you cant make it up......

Nobody called you a NeoNazi, you made that part up. I’m OK with Remoaner, it’s meant to be an insult but I’m OK with indulging it.

Which question?

[BigAdz]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.

you are right, you cant make it up......

Nobody called you a NeoNazi, you made that part up. I’m OK with Remoaner, it’s meant to be an insult but I’m OK with indulging it.

Which question?

Oh no. You, Mint, Tighty never do call out actual names, just insinuate.....

Its all good, but don't grumble when you get some back.


See above for question post re horse racing

[kukushkin88]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.

you are right, you cant make it up......

Nobody called you a NeoNazi, you made that part up. I’m OK with Remoaner, it’s meant to be an insult but I’m OK with indulging it.

Which question?

Oh no. You, Mint, Tighty never do call out actual names, just insinuate.....

Its all good, but don't grumble when you get some back.

See above for question post re horse racing

I think they’ll punish us at the point of exit. They hold all the power at that point. It will protect the Union to some extent if leaving is difficult and economically damaging. Whether or not they’re right to do that, I don’t know for sure. I think they will though. After that it’s market forces and size of trading bloc, I guess. Market forces, projections are bad. Trading bloc, we already know that one. Factor in the incredible lack of preparation and it’s a train wreck.

Please don’t worry about insulting me, it’s not a problem.

[kukushkin88]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.

you are right, you cant make it up......

Nobody called you a NeoNazi, you made that part up. I’m OK with Remoaner, it’s meant to be an insult but I’m OK with indulging it.

Which question?

Oh no. You, Mint, Tighty never do call out actual names, just insinuate.....

Its all good, but don't grumble when you get some back.

See above for question post re horse racing

I think they’ll punish us at the point of exit. They hold all the power at that point. It will protect the Union to some extent if leaving is difficult and economically damaging. Whether or not they’re right to do that, I don’t know for sure. I think they will though. After that it’s market forces and size of trading bloc, I guess. Market forces, projections are bad. Trading bloc, we already know that one. Factor in the incredible lack of preparation and it’s a train wreck.

Please don’t worry about insulting me, it’s not a problem.

In respect to the horses specifically, I think there’ll be no problems. In the wider picture, wow there’s quite a bit of work to draw up the new rules. They won’t in themselves (see above for possible downsides) leave us worse off, we don’t have the wherewithal atm to do it though, not close. Great civil servants (mostly), really shit government.

[BigAdz]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.

you are right, you cant make it up......

Nobody called you a NeoNazi, you made that part up. I’m OK with Remoaner, it’s meant to be an insult but I’m OK with indulging it.

Which question?

Oh no. You, Mint, Tighty never do call out actual names, just insinuate.....

Its all good, but don't grumble when you get some back.

See above for question post re horse racing

I think they’ll punish us at the point of exit. They hold all the power at that point. It will protect the Union to some extent if leaving is difficult and economically damaging. Whether or not they’re right to do that, I don’t know for sure. I think they will though. After that it’s market forces and size of trading bloc, I guess. Market forces, projections are bad. Trading bloc, we already know that one. Factor in the incredible lack of preparation and it’s a train wreck.

Please don’t worry about insulting me, it’s not a problem.

In respect to the horses specifically, I think there’ll be no problems. In the wider picture, wow there’s quite a bit of work to draw up the new rules. They won’t in themselves (see above for possible downsides) leave us worse off, we don’t have the wherewithal atm to do it though, not close. Great civil servants (mostly), really shit government.

Thank you.

This is the point though. Whilst I get what you mean about it all being done at time of exit(I guess because there are just a zillion different ways and means that can never be concluded individually and signed off by Govt), the same long term resolutions will surely apply in so many instances like the horses, ie, what the EU would like to do(out of spite)vs what a standard trading arrangement is at the moment, gives us plenty of comfort that we will get the same result in almost all our daily dealings.

The EU has set precedence with so many world trading partners, it would look vindictive/petty to treat us worse.

As well educated as you are, are you aware of the general mood in many EU countries at this time who have their backs to the wall, like Italy, who feel much of their current misery is now down to the EU?.(I base this on my dealings with many of the major construction companies around Europe, many sick of having to find work in Africa/South America to keep afloat).

I do wonder when the final hour is upon us, if those countries that may also be looking at an exit strategy(if indeed they are, or do), may also ensure some equity is forthcoming in the agreement.

[kukushkin88]

Good post, I’m on the football now, till the end of the Jacksonville game. It’s an interesting question, in terms of my knowledge of the mood in Italy and most EU countries. We don’t learn much (nothing really) from personal experience about populations.

[Pokerpops]

Has anybody here read this yet?

 https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/

I haven't read much of it myself, but there is clearly some interesting/useful stuff in it. 

Thanks Doobs, I now have a headache.

Definitely some interesting stuff in there though.

[MintTrav]

tbf Remain have done a shed load of moaning

Correctly (in my opinion)

Just like some (many?) leavers continue to ignore facts, or refuse to change their minds in spite of all evidence that they should. (in my opinion, not in yours)

A remain voter doesn't need to be called a remoaner any more than a leave voter needs to be called stupid, or worse. I think this is the point being made in John's originial comparison 



 

Remoaner is meant in a jokey way. I thought EVERYONE got that.  I dont get all teeth grindy and seeth over every time you post some thoughts on how you feel about it, but you seem to, when those of us who do believe it can work, make a comment. I think all the Brexiteers(is this an offensive term??!!) on here have recognised and accepted certain points on here, and admitted there are concerns, but I have yet to see any point made by Brexiteers even being considered by the Remoaners...sorry, those people that wish us to stay in the EU...

The point was made I was being a hypocrite by using that term.

I don't think so. It is a commonly used term, even by people far far more PC than me, hardly a bitchy term or rank with telling someone to F off, or insinuate they are a racist...

You used the term remoaner in a reply to me.  I could have replied in kind, but I just rolled my eyes and got on with my day.   I dare say nobody laughed, as it has long since become tiresome.   Think I'd prefer it if you told me to f off, though I dare say Tighty wouldn't welcome that either.

I wouldn't mind so much but I had pulled someone up for throwing insults at you a day or two before. 

Remoaner isn't the same as Brexiteer, as one sounds positive, the other is clearly negative. 

"It's just a joke" - the defence of every racist, sexist, homophobe and other type of bully, blaming the subject for not being able to take a "joke".  I wasn't aware of the term being thought of as a joke, and I'm damn sure that plenty who use it don't see it as such either. It's meant as an insult and taken as such.

I have tried to be polite so far but sorry, get a fucking life.

You must have no sense of humour at all if you class being called a Remoaner an insult up there with racist/sexist/homophobe.

I must be living in a alternative universe if you think these two are even vaguely comparable.

The BBC3 thing I asked to be posted the other day, was a joke, I also suggested the Leave equivalent was funny too. Its called fun. This doesn't have to be a thread where you leave your sense of humour at the door before you post.......or does it? Im starting to wonder

I know many of your posts are dry and informative, but ffs come on....if you think that calling you a remoaner is like bullying then you must have lead a very sheltered life sir........

What are you talking about?

I pointed out that the discredited go-to line ‘It’s only a joke’, employed by school-ground and workplace bigots everywhere, and celebrity bigots from Bernard Manning through to Roseanne this year, is not a good defence for your name-calling.

I never said your name-calling is comparable to racism/sexism/homophobia. Nice trick that, claiming I said something I didn’t and arguing against it.

[kukushkin88]

tbf Remain have done a shed load of moaning

Correctly (in my opinion)

Just like some (many?) leavers continue to ignore facts, or refuse to change their minds in spite of all evidence that they should. (in my opinion, not in yours)

A remain voter doesn't need to be called a remoaner any more than a leave voter needs to be called stupid, or worse. I think this is the point being made in John's originial comparison 



 

Remoaner is meant in a jokey way. I thought EVERYONE got that.  I dont get all teeth grindy and seeth over every time you post some thoughts on how you feel about it, but you seem to, when those of us who do believe it can work, make a comment. I think all the Brexiteers(is this an offensive term??!!) on here have recognised and accepted certain points on here, and admitted there are concerns, but I have yet to see any point made by Brexiteers even being considered by the Remoaners...sorry, those people that wish us to stay in the EU...

The point was made I was being a hypocrite by using that term.

I don't think so. It is a commonly used term, even by people far far more PC than me, hardly a bitchy term or rank with telling someone to F off, or insinuate they are a racist...

You used the term remoaner in a reply to me.  I could have replied in kind, but I just rolled my eyes and got on with my day.   I dare say nobody laughed, as it has long since become tiresome.   Think I'd prefer it if you told me to f off, though I dare say Tighty wouldn't welcome that either.

I wouldn't mind so much but I had pulled someone up for throwing insults at you a day or two before. 

Remoaner isn't the same as Brexiteer, as one sounds positive, the other is clearly negative. 

"It's just a joke" - the defence of every racist, sexist, homophobe and other type of bully, blaming the subject for not being able to take a "joke".  I wasn't aware of the term being thought of as a joke, and I'm damn sure that plenty who use it don't see it as such either. It's meant as an insult and taken as such.

I have tried to be polite so far but sorry, get a fucking life.

You must have no sense of humour at all if you class being called a Remoaner an insult up there with racist/sexist/homophobe.

I must be living in a alternative universe if you think these two are even vaguely comparable.

The BBC3 thing I asked to be posted the other day, was a joke, I also suggested the Leave equivalent was funny too. Its called fun. This doesn't have to be a thread where you leave your sense of humour at the door before you post.......or does it? Im starting to wonder

I know many of your posts are dry and informative, but ffs come on....if you think that calling you a remoaner is like bullying then you must have lead a very sheltered life sir........

What are you talking about?

I pointed out that the discredited go-to line ‘It’s only a joke’, employed by school-ground and workplace bigots everywhere, and celebrity bigots from Bernard Manning through to Roseanne this year, is not a good defence for your name-calling.

I never said your name-calling is comparable to racism/sexism/homophobia. Nice trick that, claiming I said something I didn’t and arguing against it.

You say “nice trick” but it’s actually such a crap trick. If anybody reads the posts the ‘trick’ finds itself in trouble pretty quickly :-).