The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.

you are right, you cant make it up......

Nobody called you a NeoNazi, you made that part up. I’m OK with Remoaner, it’s meant to be an insult but I’m OK with indulging it.

Which question?

Oh no. You, Mint, Tighty never do call out actual names, just insinuate.....

Its all good, but don't grumble when you get some back.

See above for question post re horse racing

I think they’ll punish us at the point of exit. They hold all the power at that point. It will protect the Union to some extent if leaving is difficult and economically damaging. Whether or not they’re right to do that, I don’t know for sure. I think they will though. After that it’s market forces and size of trading bloc, I guess. Market forces, projections are bad. Trading bloc, we already know that one. Factor in the incredible lack of preparation and it’s a train wreck.

Please don’t worry about insulting me, it’s not a problem.

In respect to the horses specifically, I think there’ll be no problems. In the wider picture, wow there’s quite a bit of work to draw up the new rules. They won’t in themselves (see above for possible downsides) leave us worse off, we don’t have the wherewithal atm to do it though, not close. Great civil servants (mostly), really shit government.

Thank you.

This is the point though. Whilst I get what you mean about it all being done at time of exit(I guess because there are just a zillion different ways and means that can never be concluded individually and signed off by Govt), the same long term resolutions will surely apply in so many instances like the horses, ie, what the EU would like to do(out of spite)vs what a standard trading arrangement is at the moment, gives us plenty of comfort that we will get the same result in almost all our daily dealings.

The EU has set precedence with so many world trading partners, it would look vindictive/petty to treat us worse.

As well educated as you are, are you aware of the general mood in many EU countries at this time who have their backs to the wall, like Italy, who feel much of their current misery is now down to the EU?.(I base this on my dealings with many of the major construction companies around Europe, many sick of having to find work in Africa/South America to keep afloat).

I do wonder when the final hour is upon us, if those countries that may also be looking at an exit strategy(if indeed they are, or do), may also ensure some equity is forthcoming in the agreement.

How do any of us know what the mood is the other countries? Right wing groups, including far right groups do appear to be on the rise (just taking data from actual polls/elections). It’s difficult to know how much has it’s basis in reality though. It might just be the same anti-immigration right wing bullshit agenda that is peddled by so many in the UK.

What would be better outside the EU and why? Just because people in a narrow band of industry dislike something, that doesn’t make it bad. History says countries  thrive when togetherness is the feature of international relationships, countries suffer as a result of division. The EU/Brexit might be different but I can’t see why.

[doubleup]

I know, says kuch

I shall jump on the bandwagon and also see if calling some a Remoaner or a Neo Nazi is a similar insult.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE.

you are right, you cant make it up......

Nobody called you a NeoNazi, you made that part up. I’m OK with Remoaner, it’s meant to be an insult but I’m OK with indulging it.

Which question?

Oh no. You, Mint, Tighty never do call out actual names, just insinuate.....

Its all good, but don't grumble when you get some back.

See above for question post re horse racing

I think they’ll punish us at the point of exit. They hold all the power at that point. It will protect the Union to some extent if leaving is difficult and economically damaging. Whether or not they’re right to do that, I don’t know for sure. I think they will though. After that it’s market forces and size of trading bloc, I guess. Market forces, projections are bad. Trading bloc, we already know that one. Factor in the incredible lack of preparation and it’s a train wreck.

Please don’t worry about insulting me, it’s not a problem.

In respect to the horses specifically, I think there’ll be no problems. In the wider picture, wow there’s quite a bit of work to draw up the new rules. They won’t in themselves (see above for possible downsides) leave us worse off, we don’t have the wherewithal atm to do it though, not close. Great civil servants (mostly), really shit government.

Thank you.

This is the point though. Whilst I get what you mean about it all being done at time of exit(I guess because there are just a zillion different ways and means that can never be concluded individually and signed off by Govt), the same long term resolutions will surely apply in so many instances like the horses, ie, what the EU would like to do(out of spite)vs what a standard trading arrangement is at the moment, gives us plenty of comfort that we will get the same result in almost all our daily dealings.

The EU has set precedence with so many world trading partners, it would look vindictive/petty to treat us worse.

As well educated as you are, are you aware of the general mood in many EU countries at this time who have their backs to the wall, like Italy, who feel much of their current misery is now down to the EU?.(I base this on my dealings with many of the major construction companies around Europe, many sick of having to find work in Africa/South America to keep afloat).

I do wonder when the final hour is upon us, if those countries that may also be looking at an exit strategy(if indeed they are, or do), may also ensure some equity is forthcoming in the agreement.

You really don't get it, despite it being mentioned countless times.  If there is no exit agreement, there is simply no legal basis for any commerce other than under WTO terms.  All the problems about food imports, flights, medicines, cross border financial contracts are a result of Britain leaving without a replacement to the the EU treaties that cover these areas.  It isn't anything to do with to with "treating us worse".

As far as horses are concerned, I have no idea whether there are any EU treaties/agreements covering their movement.  You brought the issue up and watched the tv show  - have you looked into it.  It wouldn't be the least bit surprising, if there was some issue regarding the movement of non-food livestock in the event of no deal (or that it was overlooked in a deal).  oh wait a quick google and

The movement of horses between Britain and Europe, for example for racing, is currently subject to EU rules which typically require an ID and health document. For travel between Britain, France and Ireland only an ID document is required.

Britain is seeking talks with the European Commission to become a listed third country, similar to Australia and New Zealand, on the day it leaves the EU, which would allow horses to travel with appropriate ID and health documents.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-horses/movement-of-horses-from-uk-to-the-eu-could-be-barred-by-no-deal-brexit-idUSKCN1MM1SX

So it seems that there is a problem and it seems that "remoaners" were highlighting the problem.  "staggeringly ignorant" remoaners that is.

[RED-DOG]

I think we can file this under the 'No Shit Sherlock' category.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45859282

[nirvana]

A border in the Irish sea seems sensible to me. Ridiculous that we are making such a big deal about this. Ireland is already a special case so I can't see any inconsistency with having a special border arrangement. Am I being too ignorant of DUP concerns and what do those really amount to

[TightEnd]

this may help

What is the DUP playing at by opposing an all-UK backstop with no time limit? The answer has as much to do with their strategic self-interest as it does the shape of Brexit.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/10/what-dup-playing-brexit

[TightEnd]

Conservative remainer Anna Soubry MP
"The uncomfortable truth is that #Brexit cannot be delivered. It’s time we all faced the reality and were honest with the British people. We owe them a huge apology for a referendum with an option that was undefined & undeliverable."

[TightEnd]

The Kamikaze Tendency

(crunch time)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/14/will-mrs-may-bastards-risk-destroying-their-own-government

[TightEnd]

crunch

David Davis calls on ministers to rebel against Brexit deal
Ex-minister says PM’s plan is ‘unacceptable’ as she tries to appease DUP and Tory Brexiters

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/14/david-davis-calls-on-ministers-to-rebel-against-brexit-deal?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

editorial comment by RP

Alas, “Brexit Bulldog” Davis is serial resigner & waste of political space. Has no answers (DexEU sec for two years !), but urges ex-cabinet colleagues still in the trenches to go over the top while he struts his stuff in safety at ERG’s chateau. Lazy sod

[TightEnd]

Lawrence Freedman wrote the screenshot in 2016

then followed up this weekend with "  The leaders of the Leave campaign  dismissed warnings such as this by exaggerating our negotiating leverage. They still do. They now face the consequences of either an unholy mess or an ignominious retreat."

(interesting in the context of our discussions over the weekend about insularity, multilateralism etc)

[TightEnd]

apparently came close to a deal yesterday

Ireland scuppered it/DUP to be more accurate

[TightEnd]

and similar

[TightEnd]

the pol.ed of the Telegraph of all places said

"Even if ‘hard’ Brexiteers can rustle up 150 or 200 votes, they are still massively outnumbered. As for those funny 32m people called the voters, ie the rest of us, only a minority want to slump out of the EU into Limbo and drop Northern Ireland in it."

but is that true?

[TightEnd]

meanwhile Sam Coates of the times said

"It's striking the extent to which the Pro-Brexit argument has narrowed down to vague appeals to patriotism and the need to fulfill a mandate. You hardly ever see a positive reason for leaving anymore."

[TightEnd]

then Nardelli of Buzzfeed

"Probably stating the obvious, but what’s clear tonight is that the biggest obstacle to a Brexit deal, as things stand, is Theresa May’s inability to get her cabinet, party, and the DUP behind whatever is agreed with the EU in Brussels"

[TightEnd]

DUP quotes —

1. “When Theresa May was running in wheat, Arlene was seeing her dad crawl back home after being shot. Let’s be blunt, we’ve been through worse than this. Do they really think we’ll just give up?”

2. “We are going to squeeze their balls until their ears bleed.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/arlene-foster-dup-northern-ireland-brexit-unionists-plan-guerilla-war-against-northern-ireland-brexit-plan/