The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Woodsey]

what a leader she is

said nobody ever

She’s still better than that useless numpty Corbo.....long may he remain labour leader  

[MintTrav]

Lol JCorbs won’t meet to discuss constructive solutions unless No Deal is off the table

Err how do you negotiate a better deal with the EU when you give them all the leverage JCorbs?

You won’t discuss solutions for the country JCorbs?

The fella is a mess

What, so we can threaten them with No Deal, lol?

No Deal is a threat to us.

[aaron1867]

I think today out of all days since the vote, has been the most angriest I have been about it all.

The fact that both parties are playing party politics is just an absolute joke. I vote Labour, will vote Labour next time, but I am so bloody fed up with Jeremy Corbyn, today's vote was never going to win and he still called it. He has no bloody plan, gets embarrassed at every exchange with the PM and still carries on. For heavens sake Jeremy, go with your colleagues and push for the second bloody vote.

In between it all, you have the Lib Dems & SNP, whilst I want a second vote, it is tiresome to see all they have ever talk about it the second vote. You can speak to the PM and not mention it. You could literally ask Vince Cable what he's having for tea and he'd still say "peoples vote".

The actual funny thing about it is that the only way people get a no-deal is if the people vote for it. But yet if you ask those who want a no-deal for a second vote, they would tell you to pee off.

The only way out of this, as stated before is that vote. It solves it all. I think in the background, it surely must be putting groundwork by Downing Street, because there is no chance of a bloody deal.

And may I ask, as I am not sure of her role in all of this, but when does the Queen actually go to Parliament to seek assurances or ask for a way foward?

This simply can't go on.

[aaron1867]

Its quite sad how this thread has petered out, especially when the events of the last few days have been so incredible.

For me watching the stuff on TV has made me really quite angry.

The long and short of it, is that a minority of people who lost a vote, have managed to engineer the country into believing that everyone who voted for Brexit is an idiot and wasn't worthy of their vote, and so it should be ignored.

If that was the case I could go with it, but just as many "stable and intelligent" folk voted out and therefore the majority wishes should have been respected.

We have all made mistakes in life, and we all have to live with them.  This is a classic point in case.

Even voting for Brexit was predicted to see a financial collapse, and we would be a 3rd world country long before now. None of this has happened.

Other countries cope quite comfortably without being a part of the EU. Its been a disgrace that this has not happened.

I am directly angry at Teresa May. She seems to think she is the reincarnate of Maggie, but has none of the skills that Maggie would have utilised to ensure we got a deal, but this womans single minded stubbornness has put the country at loggerheads.

She wanted so desperately to be THE one that sorted it, and now she is reviled almost everywhere, and to me, its all she deserves.

The worst thing is, as poor as she has been, God knows what mess Corbyn would have put us in, and it now seems a matter of time before we get that clown at the helm.

God help us all. This time I think we will see blood on the streets.......

Adz,

I am going to have to disagree with you. I get all your frustrations & I share some of them, as stated above, I was very angry about it all today, but I just think you hold a slightly simplistic view

Firstly, don't fall into this media thing of going down the majority/minority thing. It was 52/48, 52/48 in other situations is not a majority. 52 is just a higher number than 48.

Your argument of saying people think leave voters are stupid isn't a good one. There are a hell of a lot more hooligan types that voted leave than remain. This includes a very high majority of EDL. Some people voted leave because of that big red bus, now that was silly. The leave campaign was based on a mystery, nobody knows what's on the other side. Some people voted leave because they are racist and believed that suddenly nobody from any other country would come to the UK. I would say there are a lot more uneducated people that voted leave than remain.

As for Theresa, she is stubborn, but this wasn't going to be easy. She's come with a deal, she hasn't got it through & she will go again. It will never get through. BUT, whilst you are wanting a different Brexit, any other leader would have had the same issues. The most frustrating thing here is that there is not a plan on the way to go foward. She would hold more respect of mine, and potentially yours, if she went down a route of telling us genuinely what is going on.

[MANTIS01]

Lol JCorbs won’t meet to discuss constructive solutions unless No Deal is off the table

Err how do you negotiate a better deal with the EU when you give them all the leverage JCorbs?

You won’t discuss solutions for the country JCorbs?

The fella is a mess

What, so we can threaten them with No Deal, lol?

No Deal is a threat to us.

No deal is a threat to everybody

And it’s currently the likeliest option

[Pokerpops]

Its quite sad how this thread has petered out, especially when the events of the last few days have been so incredible.

For me watching the stuff on TV has made me really quite angry.

The long and short of it, is that a minority of people who lost a vote, have managed to engineer the country into believing that everyone who voted for Brexit is an idiot and wasn't worthy of their vote, and so it should be ignored.

If that was the case I could go with it, but just as many "stable and intelligent" folk voted out and therefore the majority wishes should have been respected.

We have all made mistakes in life, and we all have to live with them.  This is a classic point in case.

Even voting for Brexit was predicted to see a financial collapse, and we would be a 3rd world country long before now. None of this has happened.

Other countries cope quite comfortably without being a part of the EU. Its been a disgrace that this has not happened.

I am directly angry at Teresa May. She seems to think she is the reincarnate of Maggie, but has none of the skills that Maggie would have utilised to ensure we got a deal, but this womans single minded stubbornness has put the country at loggerheads.

She wanted so desperately to be THE one that sorted it, and now she is reviled almost everywhere, and to me, its all she deserves.

The worst thing is, as poor as she has been, God knows what mess Corbyn would have put us in, and it now seems a matter of time before we get that clown at the helm.

God help us all. This time I think we will see blood on the streets.......

Adz,

I am going to have to disagree with you. I get all your frustrations & I share some of them, as stated above, I was very angry about it all today, but I just think you hold a slightly simplistic view

Firstly, don't fall into this media thing of going down the majority/minority thing. It was 52/48, 52/48 in other situations is not a majority. 52 is just a higher number than 48.

Your argument of saying people think leave voters are stupid isn't a good one. There are a hell of a lot more hooligan types that voted leave than remain. This includes a very high majority of EDL. Some people voted leave because of that big red bus, now that was silly. The leave campaign was based on a mystery, nobody knows what's on the other side. Some people voted leave because they are racist and believed that suddenly nobody from any other country would come to the UK. I would say there are a lot more uneducated people that voted leave than remain.

As for Theresa, she is stubborn, but this wasn't going to be easy. She's come with a deal, she hasn't got it through & she will go again. It will never get through. BUT, whilst you are wanting a different Brexit, any other leader would have had the same issues. The most frustrating thing here is that there is not a plan on the way to go foward. She would hold more respect of mine, and potentially yours, if she went down a route of telling us genuinely what is going on.

This post, including the quote, has me feeling so badly conflicted that I may just seize up.

I disagree with both of you. There seems little point in explaining why because Adz in particular has the certainty of his own viewpoint being inarguable purely because it is his view. Aaron, is just, well, it’s Aaron and the ultimate irony is that he thinks Adz is being simplistic.

Personally, i’m sick of the whole thing. I loathe the EU and the drive towards a federal system for Europe but the waste of time, effort and intellectual energy over the last three years is ridiculous.

[StuartHopkin]

Incredible scenes itt now!

Adz-
Do you really see it like that?
In my opinion no one has engineered anything, the whole thing is undeliverable in any sensible format.
Why on earth are you angry directly at Theresa May, what do you think she should have done differently?
Personally I think she is incred!

Aaron-
Just ROFL
What percentage of the leave vote do you think came from the EDL.

Mantis-
I would say no brexit is now more likely than no deal.
 

[Longines]

I would say no brexit is now more likely than no deal.
 

Disagree.

A) list of things that have to take place for no deal to happen in 29 March:
1. The earth keeps turning.

B) List of things that have to take place for no Brexit to happen:
1. Someone submits a motion to amend The Withdrawal Act
2. It commands a majority in the House.

Parliament's plan is probably calling all the Clark Kents in the phone book, it's more likely than B happening.

[Doobs]

Lol JCorbs won’t meet to discuss constructive solutions unless No Deal is off the table

Err how do you negotiate a better deal with the EU when you give them all the leverage JCorbs?

You won’t discuss solutions for the country JCorbs?

The fella is a mess

What, so we can threaten them with No Deal, lol?

No Deal is a threat to us.

No deal is a threat to everybody

And it’s currently the likeliest option

Brexit by 29 March is 6/1 on Betfair, and that is all kinds of Brexit, not just no deal ones. 

... and Betfair has a distinguished history of predicting all things Brexit

[MANTIS01]

I think an extension is just as likely

But I’m sure taking No Deal off the table doesn’t strengthen our negotiating position

Aside from the economic implications to several member states it fucks Ireland. Greece is already fucked. Several other countries are on the cusp.

Wonder how many fucked up members before the club is deemed fucked?

Apologies for overuse of fucked.

[RED-DOG]

But I’m sure taking No Deal off the table doesn’t strengthen our negotiating position

This.

[BigAdz]

Its quite sad how this thread has petered out, especially when the events of the last few days have been so incredible.

For me watching the stuff on TV has made me really quite angry.

The long and short of it, is that a minority of people who lost a vote, have managed to engineer the country into believing that everyone who voted for Brexit is an idiot and wasn't worthy of their vote, and so it should be ignored.

If that was the case I could go with it, but just as many "stable and intelligent" folk voted out and therefore the majority wishes should have been respected.

We have all made mistakes in life, and we all have to live with them.  This is a classic point in case.

Even voting for Brexit was predicted to see a financial collapse, and we would be a 3rd world country long before now. None of this has happened.

Other countries cope quite comfortably without being a part of the EU. Its been a disgrace that this has not happened.

I am directly angry at Teresa May. She seems to think she is the reincarnate of Maggie, but has none of the skills that Maggie would have utilised to ensure we got a deal, but this womans single minded stubbornness has put the country at loggerheads.

She wanted so desperately to be THE one that sorted it, and now she is reviled almost everywhere, and to me, its all she deserves.

The worst thing is, as poor as she has been, God knows what mess Corbyn would have put us in, and it now seems a matter of time before we get that clown at the helm.

God help us all. This time I think we will see blood on the streets.......

Adz,

I am going to have to disagree with you. I get all your frustrations & I share some of them, as stated above, I was very angry about it all today, but I just think you hold a slightly simplistic view

Firstly, don't fall into this media thing of going down the majority/minority thing. It was 52/48, 52/48 in other situations is not a majority. 52 is just a higher number than 48.

Your argument of saying people think leave voters are stupid isn't a good one. There are a hell of a lot more hooligan types that voted leave than remain. This includes a very high majority of EDL. Some people voted leave because of that big red bus, now that was silly. The leave campaign was based on a mystery, nobody knows what's on the other side. Some people voted leave because they are racist and believed that suddenly nobody from any other country would come to the UK. I would say there are a lot more uneducated people that voted leave than remain.

As for Theresa, she is stubborn, but this wasn't going to be easy. She's come with a deal, she hasn't got it through & she will go again. It will never get through. BUT, whilst you are wanting a different Brexit, any other leader would have had the same issues. The most frustrating thing here is that there is not a plan on the way to go foward. She would hold more respect of mine, and potentially yours, if she went down a route of telling us genuinely what is going on.

This post, including the quote, has me feeling so badly conflicted that I may just seize up.

I disagree with both of you. There seems little point in explaining why because Adz in particular has the certainty of his own viewpoint being inarguable purely because it is his view. Aaron, is just, well, it’s Aaron and the ultimate irony is that he thinks Adz is being simplistic.

Personally, i’m sick of the whole thing. I loathe the EU and the drive towards a federal system for Europe but the waste of time, effort and intellectual energy over the last three years is ridiculous.

LOL, David or Pokerpops or whatever mask you are hiding behind this week. What a dick.

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin, your comment about having one view and sticking to it, is a pile of old bollocks. You have just taken a chance to have a poke because I have upset you elsewhere.  

As for Teresa, if she had taken the time to do what she is being forced to do now, and involve everyone(even if she ignores their views)she would have got a lot further in the first place. She may have shown incredible fortitude in ignoring all the haters, but most of it has been of her own doing.....and I am regular Tory voter.

I am not even going to bother with Aarons assumption that a majority isnt a majority if its not much, or that fact he thinks over half the nation are hooligans/uneducated/racists and mainly members of the EDL that all believe a poster on a red bus. Not only that, but now some of them have suddenly lost that set of views and now want to stay.

I would suggest that there may be one idiot that did vote remain


You can't make this stuff up

[Jon MW]

...

I am not even going to bother with Aarons assumption that a majority isnt a majority if its not much, ...

I'd have more of an issue with what it is a majority of.

It's a majority of the people who voted, it wasn't even the majority of people eligible to vote.

Most people in the country didn't vote for Brexit - that is a meaningful majority.

[BigAdz]

...

I am not even going to bother with Aarons assumption that a majority isnt a majority if its not much, ...

I'd have more of an issue with what it is a majority of.

It's a majority of the people who voted, it wasn't even the majority of people eligible to vote.

Most people in the country didn't vote for Brexit - that is a meaningful majority.

The majority of people dont vote for the government of any era, on the same basis.......That is a meaningful majority too, but if people cant be bothered then they lose the chance to moan.

[Longines]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.