The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MintTrav]

The Hatton tweet seems fairly innocuous "Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel."

Isn't that pretty close to what most people think?

It might be close to what most people think but it's akin to saying "Muslims with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Isis/Saudi Arabia/Iraq/Iran etc".

Most people would also agree with this second statement but many would protest it as Islamophobic - not least, most of the Labour left

Yeah, I see what you're saying. There can't be an expectation to speak out imposed on someone who has no involvement in politics and is just going about their life in the UK.

He probably should have said that Jews who defend such actions by the Israeli government should stop doing so.

Still doesn't seem the worst thing someone has tweeted.

[nirvana]

The Hatton tweet seems fairly innocuous "Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel."

Isn't that pretty close to what most people think?

It might be close to what most people think but it's akin to saying "Muslims with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Isis/Saudi Arabia/Iraq/Iran etc".

Most people would also agree with this second statement but many would protest it as Islamophobic - not least, most of the Labour left

Yeah, I see what you're saying. There can't be an expectation to speak out imposed on someone who has no involvement in politics and is just going about their life in the UK.

He probably should have said that Jews who defend such actions by the Israeli government should stop doing so.

Still doesn't seem the worst thing someone has tweeted.

yep, agree with the last bit, but also understand that to many Jews it would be classic dog whistle stuff.

Slight harshness I think in that its a tweet from 2012 - quite different standards apply to what people will call out as clear racism today versus the relatively short time back to then.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I'm sure you don't give a shit and your reply will be along those lines, but I dont see how anyone can say they will never vote for X party ever. What if all you hold dear aligns to what they represent or vice versa? Especially in a period like we are now where no one knows what the f is going on

Fundamentally the Tories will never align to anything I will vote for, as they're basically the party of 'as long as I'm alright, sod the rest of you'.

See the reply to Red Dog for exactly why I'd reached that conclusion by my late teens.  That will never change, and the current Tory Party is a morally bankrupt as Thatcher's version in the 80's.

Even Cameron's so-called "Big Society" was talked about at a time when they were imposing austerity measures alongside tax cuts for the wealthy.  See also Theresa May's 'poorest in society' speech on the day she became PM, followed by doing the complete opposite since then, particularly with Universal Credit.

For all they try to talk a good game, I've never actually seen any evidence of them actually putting it into action.

[Sheriff Fatman]

This seems a fairly sensible take on things.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/a-divided-labour-could-hand-the-tories-another-12-years-of-power/

[kukushkin88]

An excellent offering from the Daily Mash:

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/where-are-you-on-the-brexit-thickness-scale-20190222182770

[bobAlike]

An excellent offering from the Daily Mash:

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/where-are-you-on-the-brexit-thickness-scale-20190222182770

No doubt in response to John Barnes on QT last night lol

[MANTIS01]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

[kukushkin88]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

This is so ridiculous:-(. As explained so many times, racism is a fundamental part of the identity of right wing politics, the Conservative Party is institutionally racist.

[Jon MW]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

This is so ridiculous:-(. As explained so many times, racism is a fundamental part of the identity of right wing politics, the Conservative Party is institutionally racist.

In what way?

Obviously anywhere with a large proportion of old white men is going to have a fair few racists but where is the evidence of a structural problem?

[kukushkin88]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

This is so ridiculous:-(. As explained so many times, racism is a fundamental part of the identity of right wing politics, the Conservative Party is institutionally racist.

In what way?

Obviously anywhere with a large proportion of old white men is going to have a fair few racists but where is the evidence of a structural problem?

I don’t think there’s a structural problem. I just think the evidence is that the Conservative Party is far more racist and bigoted by any measure than the Labour Party. Baroness Warsi say they are racist, the London mayoral election campaign was extremely racist, they are relentlessly Islamophobic, they were big supporters of apartheid. They are obviously anti Semitic. They have recently had MP’s suspended for being racists.

[4KSuited]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

This is so ridiculous:-(. As explained so many times, racism is a fundamental part of the identity of right wing politics, the Conservative Party is institutionally racist.

In what way?

Obviously anywhere with a large proportion of old white men is going to have a fair few racists but where is the evidence of a structural problem?

I don’t think there’s a structural problem. I just think the evidence is that the Conservative Party is far more racist and bigoted by any measure than the Labour Party. Baroness Warsi say they are racist, the London mayoral election campaign was extremely racist, they are relentlessly Islamophobic, they were big supporters of apartheid. They are obviously anti Semitic. They have recently had MP’s suspended for being racists.

Don’t you see how rediculous your own post is? (Probably not)

For an allegedly balanced & intelligent person, you make some pretty astounding & insulting assertions. You generally lose the debate for yourself before it even starts. Rather than lash out at the entire population of Conservatives Party (and indirectly, their supporters), why can’t you just accept the fact of Labour’s anti-Semitic problem? Or if you can’t quite manage that, think about why you self-banned from this thread?

[kukushkin88]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

This is so ridiculous:-(. As explained so many times, racism is a fundamental part of the identity of right wing politics, the Conservative Party is institutionally racist.

In what way?

Obviously anywhere with a large proportion of old white men is going to have a fair few racists but where is the evidence of a structural problem?

I don’t think there’s a structural problem. I just think the evidence is that the Conservative Party is far more racist and bigoted by any measure than the Labour Party. Baroness Warsi say they are racist, the London mayoral election campaign was extremely racist, they are relentlessly Islamophobic, they were big supporters of apartheid. They are obviously anti Semitic. They have recently had MP’s suspended for being racists.

Don’t you see how rediculous your own post is? (Probably not)

For an allegedly balanced & intelligent person, you make some pretty astounding & insulting assertions. You generally lose the debate for yourself before it even starts. Rather than lash out at the entire population of Conservatives Party (and indirectly, their supporters), why can’t you just accept the fact of Labour’s anti-Semitic problem? Or if you can’t quite manage that, think about why you self-banned from this thread?

Labour has a problem with anti-semitism. It’s because anti-semites are attracted to the party because it’s leadership is opposed to Israeli foreign policy. A different point, directed to the Mantis post, the Conservative Party is extremely racist, not all of it though, obviously.

I self banned because I was pissed off with the trolls, doesn’t feel like a big deal.

[Jon MW]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

This is so ridiculous:-(. As explained so many times, racism is a fundamental part of the identity of right wing politics, the Conservative Party is institutionally racist.

In what way?

Obviously anywhere with a large proportion of old white men is going to have a fair few racists but where is the evidence of a structural problem?

I don’t think there’s a structural problem. I just think the evidence is that the Conservative Party is far more racist and bigoted by any measure than the Labour Party. Baroness Warsi say they are racist, the London mayoral election campaign was extremely racist, they are relentlessly Islamophobic, they were big supporters of apartheid. They are obviously anti Semitic. They have recently had MP’s suspended for being racists.

Don’t you see how rediculous your own post is? (Probably not)

For an allegedly balanced & intelligent person, you make some pretty astounding & insulting assertions. You generally lose the debate for yourself before it even starts. Rather than lash out at the entire population of Conservatives Party (and indirectly, their supporters), why can’t you just accept the fact of Labour’s anti-Semitic problem? Or if you can’t quite manage that, think about why you self-banned from this thread?

Labour has a problem with anti-semitism. It’s because anti-semites are attracted to the party because it’s leadership is opposed to Israeli foreign policy. A different point, directed to the Mantis post, the Conservative Party is extremely racist, not all of it though, obviously.

I self banned because I was pissed off with the trolls, doesn’t feel like a big deal.

Still trying to find evidence of the Conservatives being 'obviously anti-semitic'.

I found an article on the New Statesmen which basically had what you said almost word for word but their evidence appeared to be mainly based on what the Daily Mail says; which seems to be more evidence of the Daily Mail being racist/anti-Semitic rather than the Conservatives.

They also included the statement, "...Calling Ed Miliband “weird” was another code, and the argument that we should have had David Miliband, not Ed, because he looked and sounded better was a coded way of saying that he looked and sounded less Jewish...."; well yes, you can interpret it that way - but I'm pretty confident that most people really weren't looking at Ed and thinking his weirdness was to do with anything but him. The idea that preferring one Jew over another could still be related to anti-semitism seems a bit of a conceptual stretch from the start.

[nirvana]

You don't tend to get the Tory party membership actively abusing their few muslim MPs, or their Jewish ones for that matter

A large part of the membership that has joined since Corbyn became leader is a rent a gob, entitled, anti semitic rabble..in broad terms that is :-) Makes me yearn for Blair

I was pleased when Corbyn came on the scene as I thought certain areas of public debate needed to be dragged to the left - generally though, it's been a huge disappointment reading much of the left's output since then

[kukushkin88]

9 Labour MP's have now quit with many citing deep-rooted racism, Corbyn's inability to deal with it and his unsuitability for government

Tory party favour the rich?

Better than a party who favour one race over another.

This is so ridiculous:-(. As explained so many times, racism is a fundamental part of the identity of right wing politics, the Conservative Party is institutionally racist.

In what way?

Obviously anywhere with a large proportion of old white men is going to have a fair few racists but where is the evidence of a structural problem?

I don’t think there’s a structural problem. I just think the evidence is that the Conservative Party is far more racist and bigoted by any measure than the Labour Party. Baroness Warsi say they are racist, the London mayoral election campaign was extremely racist, they are relentlessly Islamophobic, they were big supporters of apartheid. They are obviously anti Semitic. They have recently had MP’s suspended for being racists.

Don’t you see how rediculous your own post is? (Probably not)

For an allegedly balanced & intelligent person, you make some pretty astounding & insulting assertions. You generally lose the debate for yourself before it even starts. Rather than lash out at the entire population of Conservatives Party (and indirectly, their supporters), why can’t you just accept the fact of Labour’s anti-Semitic problem? Or if you can’t quite manage that, think about why you self-banned from this thread?

Labour has a problem with anti-semitism. It’s because anti-semites are attracted to the party because it’s leadership is opposed to Israeli foreign policy. A different point, directed to the Mantis post, the Conservative Party is extremely racist, not all of it though, obviously.

I self banned because I was pissed off with the trolls, doesn’t feel like a big deal.

Still trying to find evidence of the Conservatives being 'obviously anti-semitic'.

I found an article on the New Statesmen which basically had what you said almost word for word but their evidence appeared to be mainly based on what the Daily Mail says; which seems to be more evidence of the Daily Mail being racist/anti-Semitic rather than the Conservatives.

They also included the statement, "...Calling Ed Miliband “weird” was another code, and the argument that we should have had David Miliband, not Ed, because he looked and sounded better was a coded way of saying that he looked and sounded less Jewish...."; well yes, you can interpret it that way - but I'm pretty confident that most people really weren't looking at Ed and thinking his weirdness was to do with anything but him. The idea that preferring one Jew over another could still be related to anti-semitism seems a bit of a conceptual stretch from the start.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/opinion/antisemitism-labour-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn/amp/