The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Cf]

Watching politics live and the concept of we will not be able to bring in enough flu vaccines in the event of no deal is trotted out again like it's a fact.

What are the mechanics of this happening ? It seems absurd to imagine that our border staff would be holding up incoming medicines or any other goods for that matter - why would we do that - drives me mad that I can't get an explanation for the mechanics of how we end up with shortages of medicines

Like so many other things on here..so many chirping how bad it will be with absolutely no substance, than they have read it somewhere from someone equally unqualified to spread it as news.

Look at CF earlier, making a comment to Tom and when he asks for substance behind the claim, they scuttle off, as so often happens from the remainers on here.

I am in Norway on business at the moment, and it just reminds me that my two favourite places in Europe to visit are here and Switzerland, where everything runs so much more smoothly than the rest of Europe, the places are cleaner, and everyone generally less hassled and laid back. Oh yes, the two most developed countries not clamouring for membership of the EU.......

I'm in work and have been busy!

My point being that your negotiating position is better before you shoot yourself in the foot and now desperately need help.

Norway, Switzerland, etc. There's no reason that couldn't have been made to work. But triggering article 50 without a plan, calling a general election to wipe out your majority and the shambles that has followed is hardly the way to go about it. It's the sort of thing that would have taken years to sort out had we gone about doing it properly.

[BigAdz]

Didn't we try to do it properly, but the deal proposed wasn't good enough. Almost feels like now we are looking No deal squarely in the face, plenty out there feeling they shouldn't have been so rash to vote against the original deal now......


This Phillip Lee is a disgrace isn't he?

One thing to be against what's going on, but to claim he still loves his party but he doesn't recognise its values etc and join Lib Dem is disgraceful. Are their values even the old Tory values, he is still wanting? Of course not. Just trying to make a name for himself.

I hope his local constituents chuck the disloyal self righteous turncoat out, asap.

[Woodsey]

Watching politics live and the concept of we will not be able to bring in enough flu vaccines in the event of no deal is trotted out again like it's a fact.

What are the mechanics of this happening ? It seems absurd to imagine that our border staff would be holding up incoming medicines or any other goods for that matter - why would we do that - drives me mad that I can't get an explanation for the mechanics of how we end up with shortages of medicines

Like so many other things on here..so many chirping how bad it will be with absolutely no substance, than they have read it somewhere from someone equally unqualified to spread it as news.

Look at CF earlier, making a comment to Tom and when he asks for substance behind the claim, they scuttle off, as so often happens from the remainers on here.

I am in Norway on business at the moment, and it just reminds me that my two favourite places in Europe to visit are here and Switzerland, where everything runs so much more smoothly than the rest of Europe, the places are cleaner, and everyone generally less hassled and laid back. Oh yes, the two most developed countries not clamouring for membership of the EU.......

I'm in work and have been busy!

My point being that your negotiating position is better before you shoot yourself in the foot and now desperately need help.

Norway, Switzerland, etc. There's no reason that couldn't have been made to work. But triggering article 50 without a plan, calling a general election to wipe out your majority and the shambles that has followed is hardly the way to go about it. It's the sort of thing that would have taken years to sort out had we gone about doing it properly.

We’d be in an even better negotiating position if the country had united behind the referendum result  and there hadn’t been a bunch of remainers undermining that position and trying to thwart Brexit. In many ways they are responsible for our current direction.

[Cf]

Watching politics live and the concept of we will not be able to bring in enough flu vaccines in the event of no deal is trotted out again like it's a fact.

What are the mechanics of this happening ? It seems absurd to imagine that our border staff would be holding up incoming medicines or any other goods for that matter - why would we do that - drives me mad that I can't get an explanation for the mechanics of how we end up with shortages of medicines

Like so many other things on here..so many chirping how bad it will be with absolutely no substance, than they have read it somewhere from someone equally unqualified to spread it as news.

Look at CF earlier, making a comment to Tom and when he asks for substance behind the claim, they scuttle off, as so often happens from the remainers on here.

I am in Norway on business at the moment, and it just reminds me that my two favourite places in Europe to visit are here and Switzerland, where everything runs so much more smoothly than the rest of Europe, the places are cleaner, and everyone generally less hassled and laid back. Oh yes, the two most developed countries not clamouring for membership of the EU.......

I'm in work and have been busy!

My point being that your negotiating position is better before you shoot yourself in the foot and now desperately need help.

Norway, Switzerland, etc. There's no reason that couldn't have been made to work. But triggering article 50 without a plan, calling a general election to wipe out your majority and the shambles that has followed is hardly the way to go about it. It's the sort of thing that would have taken years to sort out had we gone about doing it properly.

We’d be in an even better negotiating position if the country had united behind the referendum result  and there hadn’t been a bunch of remainers undermining that position and trying to thwart Brexit. In many ways they are responsible for our current direction.

The ERG!

[Woodsey]

Watching politics live and the concept of we will not be able to bring in enough flu vaccines in the event of no deal is trotted out again like it's a fact.

What are the mechanics of this happening ? It seems absurd to imagine that our border staff would be holding up incoming medicines or any other goods for that matter - why would we do that - drives me mad that I can't get an explanation for the mechanics of how we end up with shortages of medicines

Like so many other things on here..so many chirping how bad it will be with absolutely no substance, than they have read it somewhere from someone equally unqualified to spread it as news.

Look at CF earlier, making a comment to Tom and when he asks for substance behind the claim, they scuttle off, as so often happens from the remainers on here.

I am in Norway on business at the moment, and it just reminds me that my two favourite places in Europe to visit are here and Switzerland, where everything runs so much more smoothly than the rest of Europe, the places are cleaner, and everyone generally less hassled and laid back. Oh yes, the two most developed countries not clamouring for membership of the EU.......

I'm in work and have been busy!

My point being that your negotiating position is better before you shoot yourself in the foot and now desperately need help.

Norway, Switzerland, etc. There's no reason that couldn't have been made to work. But triggering article 50 without a plan, calling a general election to wipe out your majority and the shambles that has followed is hardly the way to go about it. It's the sort of thing that would have taken years to sort out had we gone about doing it properly.

We’d be in an even better negotiating position if the country had united behind the referendum result  and there hadn’t been a bunch of remainers undermining that position and trying to thwart Brexit. In many ways they are responsible for our current direction.

The ERG!

More remoaners than ERG!

[TightEnd]

Watching politics live and the concept of we will not be able to bring in enough flu vaccines in the event of no deal is trotted out again like it's a fact.

What are the mechanics of this happening ? It seems absurd to imagine that our border staff would be holding up incoming medicines or any other goods for that matter - why would we do that - drives me mad that I can't get an explanation for the mechanics of how we end up with shortages of medicines

Like so many other things on here..so many chirping how bad it will be with absolutely no substance, than they have read it somewhere from someone equally unqualified to spread it as news.

Look at CF earlier, making a comment to Tom and when he asks for substance behind the claim, they scuttle off, as so often happens from the remainers on here.

I am in Norway on business at the moment, and it just reminds me that my two favourite places in Europe to visit are here and Switzerland, where everything runs so much more smoothly than the rest of Europe, the places are cleaner, and everyone generally less hassled and laid back. Oh yes, the two most developed countries not clamouring for membership of the EU.......

I'm in work and have been busy!

My point being that your negotiating position is better before you shoot yourself in the foot and now desperately need help.

Norway, Switzerland, etc. There's no reason that couldn't have been made to work. But triggering article 50 without a plan, calling a general election to wipe out your majority and the shambles that has followed is hardly the way to go about it. It's the sort of thing that would have taken years to sort out had we gone about doing it properly.

We’d be in an even better negotiating position if the country had united behind the referendum result  and there hadn’t been a bunch of remainers undermining that position and trying to thwart Brexit. In many ways they are responsible for our current direction.

It works both ways Andrew.If May hadn't instituted the harshest of red lines to negotiate around (could have stayed within a CU and still honoured the leave vote instead, for example) then those who didn't vote to leave would have been easier to bring into the fold

As it was they were alienated, and never any attempt to get them back

Both the ERG/Hard leavers and Labour party were responsible for the WA not getting through 3 times. For one, the proposed brexit wasn't pure enough but it appears that no suggested deal would be. no deal is the aim, disaster capitalist style. For the other they thought of the party not the national interest, not helped by the front bench being or trying to be all things to all factions, and failing

Plenty of blame to go round, and far from fair to say the remain voters should have to own more than they should, That firmly belongs to the hard leavers  

[TightEnd]

Didn't we try to do it properly, but the deal proposed wasn't good enough. Almost feels like now we are looking No deal squarely in the face, plenty out there feeling they shouldn't have been so rash to vote against the original deal now......


This Phillip Lee is a disgrace isn't he?

One thing to be against what's going on, but to claim he still loves his party but he doesn't recognise its values etc and join Lib Dem is disgraceful. Are their values even the old Tory values, he is still wanting? Of course not. Just trying to make a name for himself.

I hope his local constituents chuck the disloyal self righteous turncoat out, asap.

I thought he showed considerable flair to do it in the middle of Boris's speech. Nicely dramatic.

Thinking of the country's best interest, in his opinion, and not his own career, which most MPs haven't done.

[Woodsey]

Watching politics live and the concept of we will not be able to bring in enough flu vaccines in the event of no deal is trotted out again like it's a fact.

What are the mechanics of this happening ? It seems absurd to imagine that our border staff would be holding up incoming medicines or any other goods for that matter - why would we do that - drives me mad that I can't get an explanation for the mechanics of how we end up with shortages of medicines

Like so many other things on here..so many chirping how bad it will be with absolutely no substance, than they have read it somewhere from someone equally unqualified to spread it as news.

Look at CF earlier, making a comment to Tom and when he asks for substance behind the claim, they scuttle off, as so often happens from the remainers on here.

I am in Norway on business at the moment, and it just reminds me that my two favourite places in Europe to visit are here and Switzerland, where everything runs so much more smoothly than the rest of Europe, the places are cleaner, and everyone generally less hassled and laid back. Oh yes, the two most developed countries not clamouring for membership of the EU.......

I'm in work and have been busy!

My point being that your negotiating position is better before you shoot yourself in the foot and now desperately need help.

Norway, Switzerland, etc. There's no reason that couldn't have been made to work. But triggering article 50 without a plan, calling a general election to wipe out your majority and the shambles that has followed is hardly the way to go about it. It's the sort of thing that would have taken years to sort out had we gone about doing it properly.

We’d be in an even better negotiating position if the country had united behind the referendum result  and there hadn’t been a bunch of remainers undermining that position and trying to thwart Brexit. In many ways they are responsible for our current direction.

It works both ways Andrew.If May hadn't instituted the harshest of red lines to negotiate around (could have stayed within a CU and still honoured the leave vote instead, for example) then those who didn't vote to leave would have been easier to bring into the fold

As it was they were alienated, and never any attempt to get them back

Both the ERG/Hard leavers and Labour party were responsible for the WA not getting through 3 times. For one, the proposed brexit wasn't pure enough but it appears that no suggested deal would be. no deal is the aim, disaster capitalist style. For the other they thought of the party not the national interest, not helped by the front bench being or trying to be all things to all factions, and failing

Plenty of blame to go round, and far from fair to say the remain voters should have to own more than they should, That firmly belongs to the hard leavers  

One thing is 100% clear to me right now, Boris’ approach should have been the approach from day 1. All this fucking about pretending we were going to no deal when they weren’t serious was always going to end in failure.

[BigAdz]

Didn't we try to do it properly, but the deal proposed wasn't good enough. Almost feels like now we are looking No deal squarely in the face, plenty out there feeling they shouldn't have been so rash to vote against the original deal now......


This Phillip Lee is a disgrace isn't he?

One thing to be against what's going on, but to claim he still loves his party but he doesn't recognise its values etc and join Lib Dem is disgraceful. Are their values even the old Tory values, he is still wanting? Of course not. Just trying to make a name for himself.

I hope his local constituents chuck the disloyal self righteous turncoat out, asap.

I thought he showed considerable flair to do it in the middle of Boris's speech. Nicely dramatic.

Thinking of the country's best interest, in his opinion, and not his own career, which most MPs haven't done.

I think in your heart of hearts you know the very fact it was so dramatic, and the timing of it, shows it was all about him.

He may well have the best interests of the country at stake, I think we all do, be that short or long term.

To go from one party to another shows he was also trying to cover his back. Go Independent and stick to your core principles, because they surely aren't Lib Dem........

[MANTIS01]

Watching politics live and the concept of we will not be able to bring in enough flu vaccines in the event of no deal is trotted out again like it's a fact.

What are the mechanics of this happening ? It seems absurd to imagine that our border staff would be holding up incoming medicines or any other goods for that matter - why would we do that - drives me mad that I can't get an explanation for the mechanics of how we end up with shortages of medicines

Like so many other things on here..so many chirping how bad it will be with absolutely no substance, than they have read it somewhere from someone equally unqualified to spread it as news.

Look at CF earlier, making a comment to Tom and when he asks for substance behind the claim, they scuttle off, as so often happens from the remainers on here.

I am in Norway on business at the moment, and it just reminds me that my two favourite places in Europe to visit are here and Switzerland, where everything runs so much more smoothly than the rest of Europe, the places are cleaner, and everyone generally less hassled and laid back. Oh yes, the two most developed countries not clamouring for membership of the EU.......

I'm in work and have been busy!

My point being that your negotiating position is better before you shoot yourself in the foot and now desperately need help.

Norway, Switzerland, etc. There's no reason that couldn't have been made to work. But triggering article 50 without a plan, calling a general election to wipe out your majority and the shambles that has followed is hardly the way to go about it. It's the sort of thing that would have taken years to sort out had we gone about doing it properly.

Mate you say triggering Article 50 without a plan but every MP voted on that question and parliament majority passed the trigger

So there was a plan ie we leave EU deal or no deal on x date

But there’s been so much dithering and wah wahing that progress to execute that plan has been undermined and stalled

Now parliament are still wah wahing saying nah we don’t want to respect the referendum vote and we don’t want to respect the Article 50 vote we want more votes until we get our own democratic way, oh and don’t forget locusts are coming to eat your babies.

[MANTIS01]

Didn't we try to do it properly, but the deal proposed wasn't good enough. Almost feels like now we are looking No deal squarely in the face, plenty out there feeling they shouldn't have been so rash to vote against the original deal now......


This Phillip Lee is a disgrace isn't he?

One thing to be against what's going on, but to claim he still loves his party but he doesn't recognise its values etc and join Lib Dem is disgraceful. Are their values even the old Tory values, he is still wanting? Of course not. Just trying to make a name for himself.

I hope his local constituents chuck the disloyal self righteous turncoat out, asap.

I thought he showed considerable flair to do it in the middle of Boris's speech. Nicely dramatic.

Thinking of the country's best interest, in his opinion, and not his own career, which most MPs haven't done.

His constituents voted for a conservative mp

But fuck that vote as well

[TightEnd]

Boris's approach is illogical.

 why we in the UK are not supposed to be frightened of 'no deal' at the same time as this very same 'no deal' is supposed to scare the EU into major concessions?

He could well be very stuck shortly. No deal ruled out later tonight, Labour then don't vote for an election he then has what options?

[MANTIS01]

Boris's approach is illogical.

 why we in the UK are not supposed to be frightened of 'no deal' at the same time as this very same 'no deal' is supposed to scare the EU into major concessions?

He could well be very stuck shortly. No deal ruled out later tonight, Labour then don't vote for an election he then has what options?

What options do the people have?

Just watch these ridiculous games being played out to force complete deadlock upon us

If no deal is ruled out through legislation the EU can just keep us in as they please. What options would the UK have? People can’t even vote to change government in a GE. Sure leaving is scary but we have lots of options as a country.

[kukushkin88]

Boris's approach is illogical.

 why we in the UK are not supposed to be frightened of 'no deal' at the same time as this very same 'no deal' is supposed to scare the EU into major concessions?

He could well be very stuck shortly. No deal ruled out later tonight, Labour then don't vote for an election he then has what options?

It’s amazing how the idea that was initially only really recommended by British tabloids and the ERG (pretend we really want no deal) is now the only plan. The cards are still all face up, the EU just look at all the cards, shrug and reaffirm the WA agreement.

(It’s actually tomorrow that they’re voting on the bill, a minor detail but feels like a good bit can change in 24 hours at the moment)

[BigAdz]

Sat in hotel rooms watching Sky News/CNN/BBC World news, the one thing that is clear when they go to the public, is that the majority interviewed on "randoms", ie not the banner wavers from either side, but Joe Schmo from the streets, is that most people think we should go, lets just get it done and lets just see what happens.

Its the noise makers that are screaching so loud, as on here, telling us how bad it will be with F all evidence that is just slowing the hole thing down, and putting people on edge.

If it goes to an election and its won by a party unwilling to execute Brexit, then we will see some fun and games.

I fear the worst.