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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180620 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #22665 on: December 15, 2019, 10:00:29 AM »



good interview
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« Reply #22666 on: December 15, 2019, 10:01:28 AM »

looking ahead

The Brexit dystopia bequeathed by this election. latest Brexit Blog post on how although the result means UK will definitely leave the EU the underlying dynamics of the Brexit process are unchanged, and what that means for what lies ahead.

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-brexit-dystopia-bequeathed-by-this.html
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« Reply #22667 on: December 15, 2019, 10:02:34 AM »

looking ahead

The Tory landslide and the Irish Sea

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/1213/1099064-tory-landslide-irish-sea/
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« Reply #22668 on: December 15, 2019, 10:03:50 AM »

looking ahead

Any serious UK-EU trade deal has to take longer than a few months to negotiate. Simple reality. How to get round this (no-deal, not a serious deal, extended transition under another name) to be determined. What is the direction beyond "Get Brexit Done"?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/eu-brexit-transition-period-boris-johnson
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« Reply #22669 on: December 15, 2019, 11:04:48 AM »



Caroline Flint on Sophie Ridge  : "Thornberry said to one of my colleagues that she was glad her constituents aren't as stupid as mine"

....so that's one less runner and rider. Smiley
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« Reply #22670 on: December 15, 2019, 11:27:15 AM »

JFC deluded or what.......look down at the comments too they are just as deluded.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1576374383
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« Reply #22671 on: December 15, 2019, 11:33:58 AM »



Caroline Flint on Sophie Ridge  : "Thornberry said to one of my colleagues that she was glad her constituents aren't as stupid as mine"

....so that's one less runner and rider. Smiley

I've seen a selection of Labour supporters on twitter saying a variety of offensive things like this, usually not quite so direct but there's definitely an undertone of 'how can you be so stupid - why won't you vote for us'.

It goes with a theme I've seen suggesting that Corbyn isn't a bad leader and the manifesto is a good one (therefore people are stupid because they didn't vote for the good leader with the good manifesto), as well as working class people 'betraying' the Labour party because they voted Conservative. Specifically there was a tweet with a lot of support decrying the ex-miners voting Conservative to oust Dennis Skinner in Bolsover; some of the replies were calling the people who voted Conservative 'scabs' - none of them were stopping to consider how far they had to have been pushed to do so.

Hopefully (for the Labour Party) then this social media content doesn't reflect the wider membership, in the same way it never reflected the wider electorate, because if it does then starting with the assumption that they have been right all along and that it's the voter's who are the problem wouldn't seem particularly promising for their immediate future.
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« Reply #22672 on: December 15, 2019, 11:46:39 AM »

The other thing I've noticed on Twitter from the middle class left is just how horrific they think being working class is.

There have been discussions about 'why' working class (particularly northerners) were voting for Brexit (because that's obviously the only reason they vote Tory now).

Apart from the obvious answer of - because they're racist - there was a massive amount of discussion about how it's all related to poverty and the North being decimated and devestated by the Tories. From what they wrote I would have guessed that the North is like some kind of Mad Max-ian post apocalyptic wasteland where the poverty stricken working class can only scrimp they're survival by digging in the dirt for the occasional fragment of coal to keep them going.

And this seems to point at another problem for the Labour party, there seems to be an idea that anyone richer than them is a billionaire, and anyone poorer than them is basically living in the dirt. This obviously massively skews how they think the country needs to be fixed and becomes increasingly discordant with how people are actually living their lives.
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« Reply #22673 on: December 15, 2019, 11:54:18 AM »



Caroline Flint on Sophie Ridge  : "Thornberry said to one of my colleagues that she was glad her constituents aren't as stupid as mine"

....so that's one less runner and rider. Smiley

I've seen a selection of Labour supporters on twitter saying a variety of offensive things like this, usually not quite so direct but there's definitely an undertone of 'how can you be so stupid - why won't you vote for us'.

It goes with a theme I've seen suggesting that Corbyn isn't a bad leader and the manifesto is a good one (therefore people are stupid because they didn't vote for the good leader with the good manifesto), as well as working class people 'betraying' the Labour party because they voted Conservative. Specifically there was a tweet with a lot of support decrying the ex-miners voting Conservative to oust Dennis Skinner in Bolsover; some of the replies were calling the people who voted Conservative 'scabs' - none of them were stopping to consider how far they had to have been pushed to do so.

Hopefully (for the Labour Party) then this social media content doesn't reflect the wider membership, in the same way it never reflected the wider electorate, because if it does then starting with the assumption that they have been right all along and that it's the voter's who are the problem wouldn't seem particularly promising for their immediate future.

Pretty confident that it does reflect the wider membership but definitely not the potential electors. Labour are hilarious, even now with the leadership discussions their starting point is to start to define an identikit for a leader. Northern, woman etc. oh yah, that will bring the North back round.

I wonder if the Tories thought the most appealing identikit for a potential PM for the working class in the North would be old etonian, privileged, middle aged white male, culturally insensitive, mumbling, blathering, loose with facts. Probably not but leadership is about a great deal more than some notions around identity. The Labour perspective is just way too patronising for the average Brit

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« Reply #22674 on: December 15, 2019, 11:57:24 AM »

The other thing I've noticed on Twitter from the middle class left is just how horrific they think being working class is.

There have been discussions about 'why' working class (particularly northerners) were voting for Brexit (because that's obviously the only reason they vote Tory now).

Apart from the obvious answer of - because they're racist - there was a massive amount of discussion about how it's all related to poverty and the North being decimated and devestated by the Tories. From what they wrote I would have guessed that the North is like some kind of Mad Max-ian post apocalyptic wasteland where the poverty stricken working class can only scrimp they're survival by digging in the dirt for the occasional fragment of coal to keep them going.

And this seems to point at another problem for the Labour party, there seems to be an idea that anyone richer than them is a billionaire, and anyone poorer than them is basically living in the dirt. This obviously massively skews how they think the country needs to be fixed and becomes increasingly discordant with how people are actually living their lives.

I think you're spot on with this. Develops the perspective that the system is rigged, you're life is crap, you can never get on. It's just not a winning message
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« Reply #22675 on: December 15, 2019, 12:00:56 PM »

Lisa Nandy is almost normal, but even she wants to take the view that Labour's policies were generally popular. Is someone going to tell them that their policies really weren't popular.

The focus on middle class handouts and universality, free broadband, free tuition, Waspi women recompense, free child care - er, these were not popular.
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« Reply #22676 on: December 15, 2019, 12:38:51 PM »

the big thing that the cosmopolitan labour glitterati miss is that they do not represent many of the working class

many working class people are socially conservative, many are self employed or own or work for small businesses. very aspirational people with strong family and community values. do not want to be looked after by a paternal big government, feel they can make their own decisions on how to spend money and favour low taxation. they have a low opinion on people swindling benefits. for a lot of working people the tory party has been a natural home. if we want to do crude stereoptype are sun reading, white van hiring, electricians closer to thatcherism or corbynism? i don't think it's close.

they way labour has spoken about us since the election has been disgusting.
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« Reply #22677 on: December 15, 2019, 12:41:19 PM »


Hi Teddy.

Just pop over to my diary and answer the question you asked me please.



http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=30601.msg2271224#msg2271224
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« Reply #22678 on: December 16, 2019, 08:34:29 AM »

The list of potential candidates for Labour leader is so underwhelming. I always remember when there is shouts, or a need, for a new leader then there's always a popular choices around the benches. Boris, Miliband brothers, etc.

But I gasp at what's on offer.

RLB, Burgon and Thornberry are all definite no's for me.

I probably wouldn't mind Starmer.

But I also wouldn't mind it being someone radically new who's not been mentioned. 
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« Reply #22679 on: December 16, 2019, 09:53:52 AM »

The list of potential candidates for Labour leader is so underwhelming. I always remember when there is shouts, or a need, for a new leader then there's always a popular choices around the benches. Boris, Miliband brothers, etc.

But I gasp at what's on offer.

RLB, Burgon and Thornberry are all definite no's for me.

I probably wouldn't mind Starmer.

But I also wouldn't mind it being someone radically new who's not been mentioned. 

Agree it' very underwhelming.......but it points to a female that can gain the trust of the left wing membership. RLB as low as 6/4 now.Nandy is in to 2nd fav....but is probably a bit too sensible  Smiley
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