The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[horseplayer]

Today's question (giving Barry a rest)

do we really become more conservative (with a small c, or a big C, your choice when you answer) with age?

I am only early 30s

But have/am going the other way so to speak

[Doobs]

Today's question (giving Barry a rest)

do we really become more conservative (with a small c, or a big C, your choice when you answer) with age?

I think we are more likely to become realists rather than idealists.  So I think we should gradually drift towards the centre.  

Guess you should naturally tend towards the party that is better for you too.  

[AlunB]

"A man in his 20s who is right wing has no heart, a man in his 40s who is left wing has no brain"

I think (based purely on anecdotal observation) that having kids is a far bigger driver towards small c conservatism than simply getting older.

I would say likewise accumulated wealth is more of a driver towards the large C than age.

Agree with Doobs that we shift from idealism to realism though.

[AndrewT]

I think as you get more responsibilities then change is not as attractive as it once was, you'd just like things to not change very much, which tends towards eschewing anything too radical.

[DaveShoelace]

"A man in his 20s who is right wing has no heart, a man in his 40s who is left wing has no brain"

Love this quote

Pretty much the combo of we become more pragmatic than idealistic, and we also tend to have a little more to 'conserve' - be it money, career, family etc.

Plus a super recent one for me, hence my most recent question. I'm really starting to find the young people I encounter to be fucking lazy for the most part, and if I am to believe people are getting lazier, I can't get on board with socialism.

[AlunB]

"A man in his 20s who is right wing has no heart, a man in his 40s who is left wing has no brain"

Love this quote

Pretty much the combo of we become more pragmatic than idealistic, and we also tend to have a little more to 'conserve' - be it money, career, family etc.

Plus a super recent one for me, hence my most recent question. I'm really starting to find the young people I encounter to be fucking lazy for the most part, and if I am to believe people are getting lazier, I can't get on board with socialism.

That's because you work in the poker industry.

My experience in media/publishing is anyone under 25ish is super keen and motivated. Will work stupid hours and work for a pittance. This is of course utterly abused by the higher-ups which is why you see so much crap content out there because why bother paying someone £30k a year to do it when some kid straight out of uni will write twice as much for free. The fact that it's crap is irrelevant as nobody reads anything anymore anyway.

[AlunB]

Q from me


If the NHS is really facing a £30bn funding shortfall, would you rather a) pay £1000 more a year in tax or b) pay £1000 a year to a private healthcare supplier? Seems pretty likely that one of those (almost certainly the latter) will end up being the case

[DaveShoelace]

"A man in his 20s who is right wing has no heart, a man in his 40s who is left wing has no brain"

Love this quote

Pretty much the combo of we become more pragmatic than idealistic, and we also tend to have a little more to 'conserve' - be it money, career, family etc.

Plus a super recent one for me, hence my most recent question. I'm really starting to find the young people I encounter to be fucking lazy for the most part, and if I am to believe people are getting lazier, I can't get on board with socialism.

That's because you work in the poker industry.

My experience in media/publishing is anyone under 25ish is super keen and motivated. Will work stupid hours and work for a pittance. This is of course utterly abused by the higher-ups which is why you see so much crap content out there because why bother paying someone £30k a year to do it when some kid straight out of uni will write twice as much for free. The fact that it's crap is irrelevant as nobody reads anything anymore anyway.

My view is formed from way more than the poker industry, but yes agree with you still on your points.

Professional poker players in particular, who then go on to start some sort of poker business venture, are absolutely awful to deal with.

[AlunB]

"A man in his 20s who is right wing has no heart, a man in his 40s who is left wing has no brain"

Love this quote

Pretty much the combo of we become more pragmatic than idealistic, and we also tend to have a little more to 'conserve' - be it money, career, family etc.

Plus a super recent one for me, hence my most recent question. I'm really starting to find the young people I encounter to be fucking lazy for the most part, and if I am to believe people are getting lazier, I can't get on board with socialism.

That's because you work in the poker industry.

My experience in media/publishing is anyone under 25ish is super keen and motivated. Will work stupid hours and work for a pittance. This is of course utterly abused by the higher-ups which is why you see so much crap content out there because why bother paying someone £30k a year to do it when some kid straight out of uni will write twice as much for free. The fact that it's crap is irrelevant as nobody reads anything anymore anyway.

My view is formed from way more than the poker industry, but yes agree with you still on your points.

Professional poker players in particular, who then go on to start some sort of poker business venture, are absolutely awful to deal with.

Yeah sorry that was just a joke

[TightEnd]

subtitle fun at PMQs

[DungBeetle]

Q from me


If the NHS is really facing a £30bn funding shortfall, would you rather a) pay £1000 more a year in tax or b) pay £1000 a year to a private healthcare supplier? Seems pretty likely that one of those (almost certainly the latter) will end up being the case

I'd want to understand more about the shortfall first.  As far as I know the NHS budget goes up every year, so a shortfall could be from any number of reasons:

1) Waste
2) Bloated salaries (in management for example)
3) They were underfunded to begin with
4) Population is growing and needs more funding to support it


Depending on what the primary driver is of the shortfall depends on how I'd prefer to pay my £1k.  If it's 3 or 4 then I'm much more open to paying extra tax rather than sorting myself out on my own.

If it's (4) then I want to understand why the increased population are not generating associated tax receipts to pay for the increased strain on services.

[AlunB]

Excellent points. Most of what I have read would suggest it's 3) but would love to know more.

[AndrewT]

There's also the fact that treatments/new procedures/drug/equipment costs rise as these get more sophisticated and people just aren't dying off like they used to (not just there are more people but as the demographic profile shifts older a greater proportion of the population are going to need treatment for things)

[RickBFA]

Q from me


If the NHS is really facing a £30bn funding shortfall, would you rather a) pay £1000 more a year in tax or b) pay £1000 a year to a private healthcare supplier? Seems pretty likely that one of those (almost certainly the latter) will end up being the case

I'd want to understand more about the shortfall first.  As far as I know the NHS budget goes up every year, so a shortfall could be from any number of reasons:

1) Waste
2) Bloated salaries (in management for example)
3) They were underfunded to begin with
4) Population is growing and needs more funding to support it


Depending on what the primary driver is of the shortfall depends on how I'd prefer to pay my £1k.  If it's 3 or 4 then I'm much more open to paying extra tax rather than sorting myself out on my own.

If it's (4) then I want to understand why the increased population are not generating associated tax receipts to pay for the increased strain on services.

I think the biggest factor is ageing and increasing population, combined with the increasing costs of drugs and more complex treatments.

But I think all four are factors.

Trouble with tackling 1 and 2 (particularly from a Tory Gov't) is any reform is seen as a threat and "privatisation" rather than a genuine attempt to improve the service. It's a political hot potato.

[AlunB]

This is true. But that''s because they usually think the answer is to open it up to competition from the private sector, which of course isn't really competition as it's one or two well connected firms bidding for massive contracts.

It's not the concept of reform, it's the concept of replacing public sector with private sector that annoys people. And before anyone points it out, yes Labour were just as bad at this (or worse) than the Tories. Anyone would think it's the easy option...