The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

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[TightEnd]

Why the Liberal Democrats love Brexit and Labour hate it: column in this week's NS:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/01/far-brexit-concerned-liberal-democrats-have-one-big-advantage-over-labour-they

[TightEnd]

good explainer article

Why has Jeremy Corbyn committed Labour to voting for Article 50?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/01/why-has-jeremy-corbyn-committed-labour-voting-article-50

[TightEnd]

Labour MP Tulip Siddiq resigns from frontbench over article 50 vote

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/26/labour-mp-tulip-siddiq-resigns-from-frontbench-over-article-50-vote?CMP=twt_gu

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/01/shadow-minister-tulip-siddiq-quits-over-article-50-vote-i-have-no-choice

[TightEnd]

Only 25% of the people who voted Labour in 2015 now think that Labour has the best policy on Brexit

http://ln.is/cloudfront.net/OnrPd

[TightEnd]

deconstructs Theresa May's speech to the Republican GOP yesterday

big changes to foreign policy

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/01/theresa-mays-philadelphia-speech-sets-british-foreign-policy-new

[doubleup]

The Scottish Parliament isn't allowed a say, which i suspect the government will be pleased about

And there is a very good reason for independence.

I voted out and still hold that view, I don't care for economics of it there is much more to life.

I would be quite happy out both unions.

The cleaner Brexit is, the harder the economic case for Scottish independence becomes.

Leave UK single market, 63% of exports, or EU one, 18%?

I have read and been told that Scotland exports much more to the EU than the figures we are given but because many of our exports head south before hiting the continent these figures are somewhat skewed.  

But again, we'd stll be trading with rUK.  I have no doubt about that.  

Got to be Honest, Nicola Sturgeon winds me up more than any other politician.

You might think my view is simplistic, but the Scottish people voted to stay part of the UK with all that brings - including a UK wide referendum on the EU. The UK as a whole voted to leave the EU. Sturgeon seems happy to ignore this fundamental point.

Her threats seem more and more meaningless to me. The hand she is holding is very weak.

She could push for another vote on independence - but she's highly likely to lose it. The drop in oil prices has screwed over Scotland's finances.

She dgaf what you think.  What she is saying isn't for your consumption.

[RickBFA]

The Scottish Parliament isn't allowed a say, which i suspect the government will be pleased about

And there is a very good reason for independence.

I voted out and still hold that view, I don't care for economics of it there is much more to life.

I would be quite happy out both unions.

The cleaner Brexit is, the harder the economic case for Scottish independence becomes.

Leave UK single market, 63% of exports, or EU one, 18%?

I have read and been told that Scotland exports much more to the EU than the figures we are given but because many of our exports head south before hiting the continent these figures are somewhat skewed.  

But again, we'd stll be trading with rUK.  I have no doubt about that.  

Got to be Honest, Nicola Sturgeon winds me up more than any other politician.

You might think my view is simplistic, but the Scottish people voted to stay part of the UK with all that brings - including a UK wide referendum on the EU. The UK as a whole voted to leave the EU. Sturgeon seems happy to ignore this fundamental point.

Her threats seem more and more meaningless to me. The hand she is holding is very weak.

She could push for another vote on independence - but she's highly likely to lose it. The drop in oil prices has screwed over Scotland's finances.

She dgaf what you think.  What she is saying isn't for your consumption.

Lets hope the Scottish people aren't stupid enough to fall for her BS then

[MintTrav]

The new Administration shows it is on top of the detail, screwing up the name of the head of government of one of its principal allies:





You wouldn't want to mix up Theresa May MP, former banker and current Prime Minister, with Teresa May, star of Classroom Fantasy, Smack My Bitch Up and Shag, Gobble & Spunk, whichever of them you were looking for.

Click to see full-size image.

                          Theresa May MP, PM                                                   Teresa May, model

[DaveShoelace]

Out of interest, why is British Nationalism frowned upon and Scottish Nationalism considered quite lefty?

My own interpretation is there is a (perceived) power dynamic there where the Scots are the oppressed and the Brits are the oppressors, but never thought of it beyond that.

No real issue either way my end, obviously the BNP are all dickheads and the SNP are nothing like them ideologically.

[TightEnd]

 Labour MP Jo Stevens quits shadow cabinet over article 50 vote

Shadow secretary for Wales, who argued against Corbyn’s three-line whip on Brexit bill, says leaving the EU is ‘terrible mistake’

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/27/labour-mp-jo-stevens-quits-shadow-cabinet-over-article-50-vote?CMP=twt_gu

[PokerBroker]

Out of interest, why is British Nationalism frowned upon and Scottish Nationalism considered quite lefty?

My own interpretation is there is a (perceived) power dynamic there where the Scots are the oppressed and the Brits are the oppressors, but never thought of it beyond that.

No real issue either way my end, obviously the BNP are all dickheads and the SNP are nothing like them ideologically.

Pretty much this I think it's the way it's perceived. 

British Nationalism has been hijacked over the years by the right.  It's the little Englander element or thuggish element who are ultra right wing. 

I would be all for English Nationalism if it was done for the right reasons. 

SNP for what it's worth are definitely not on the left.  Sturgeon probably is alongside a few others but there is an element of the SNP who are reactionary and would be classes as right of centre.  The Tartan Tory title given to the SNP over the years isn't too far from the truth. 

[TightEnd]

you gov today

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[AndrewT]

Out of interest, why is British Nationalism frowned upon and Scottish Nationalism considered quite lefty?

My own interpretation is there is a (perceived) power dynamic there where the Scots are the oppressed and the Brits are the oppressors, but never thought of it beyond that.

No real issue either way my end, obviously the BNP are all dickheads and the SNP are nothing like them ideologically.

Pretty much this I think it's the way it's perceived. 

British Nationalism has been hijacked over the years by the right.  It's the little Englander element or thuggish element who are ultra right wing. 

I would be all for English Nationalism if it was done for the right reasons. 

SNP for what it's worth are definitely not on the left.  Sturgeon probably is alongside a few others but there is an element of the SNP who are reactionary and would be classes as right of centre.  The Tartan Tory title given to the SNP over the years isn't too far from the truth. 

There hasn't really ever been something like English nationalism which is similar to that in Scotland. Scottish nationalism is all about independence from the rest of Britain because, to a Scot, Scotland and Britain are two completely separate things.

Whereas to the English, English/British are two interchangeable terms as England is so dominant in the union. Scots want decisions made in Edinburgh instead of London. Decisions made in London are fine for the English already.

British nationalism was always just 'no blacks and indians' spouted by neo-Nazis/football hooligans. After the National Front and BNP got precisely nowhere, getting rejected again and again by the population, they stumbled upon two things that they thought could give them legitimacy.

The first was being anti-Islam, which they can campaign against under the banner of liberal things such as free-speech and gender/sexual equality (things Islam is not a fan of). The other was English nationalism along the same lines as the Scots (English-only parliament discussing English-only laws).

However, scratch the surface of any of these groups (Britain First, EDL) and you'll still find the same old racists and football hooligans.

[DaveShoelace]

and football hooligans.

That's always the litmus test for me where these things are concerned, you dont see many ex football hooligans going into politics for the tories/labour/lib dems/greens