The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[RickBFA]

How we are talking about Corbyn in a week when Osborne has re-iterated that Tory leadership won't approach the House of Commons to vote on military action in Syria unless "we would be clear that we would win"? Is this how a democracy works? What's a reasonable period of time for them to wait to be clear that they'll win?

fwiw, I think bombing alone will achieve nothing.

I agree bombing alone will achieve nothing.

Isn't Osborne just being a pragmatic politician who is using the system we have?

You might not like it but the difference is Osborne has the power and Corbyn has his principles but makes no difference to the greater good because he is an unelectable liability for Labour.

[kukushkin88]

How we are talking about Corbyn in a week when Osborne has re-iterated that Tory leadership won't approach the House of Commons to vote on military action in Syria unless "we would be clear that we would win"? Is this how a democracy works? What's a reasonable period of time for them to wait to be clear that they'll win?

fwiw, I think bombing alone will achieve nothing.

I agree bombing alone will achieve nothing.

Isn't Osborne just being a pragmatic politician who is using the system we have?

You might not like it but the difference is Osborne has the power and Corbyn has his principles but makes no difference to the greater good because he is an unelectable liability for Labour.

Osborne's "power" looks pretty shaky if they can't get policy through 6 months after the election. Not to mention the House of Lord's having to intervene in a financial matter for the first time in over 100 years of British Government because of a callous and ill thought out policy that would have brought thousands more people below the poverty line. Let's forget Corbyn for a minute.

[TightEnd]

just what you need when there are concerns about your defence policy.....



Tom Newton Dunn Verified account
‏@tnewtondunn

Senior Labour MP texts with news about Ken Livingstone co-chairing Labour defence review... "You couldn't make this shit up".

[doubleup]

Not to mention the House of Lord's having to intervene in a financial matter for the first time in over 100 years of British Government because of a callous and ill thought out policy that would have brought thousands more people below the poverty line.

[nitpicking]  Don't think it was technically a finance bill, it was a SI.  If Osborne had included his changes in an actual (Budget) Finance Bill, they couldn't have been stopped by the Lords afaik. [/nitpicking]

[doubleup]

The leader of a democratic country can't have rigid principles.  A democracy can only be maintained by consensus, the majority can't simply crush the minority.  Principles obviously may have to be sacrificed to achieve that consensus.  They might also have to be sacrificed to safeguard the British people (or oppressed minorities elsewhere).  If Corbyn doesn't know this he simply hasn't begun to consider the role he is applying for.  If he does know it and won't implement it, he is utterly unsuitable for the role he is applying for. 

[TightEnd]

lunchtime today. it was quite remarkable to watch. i know its not the most important thing in the world but its fascinating to watch the body language in these interviews.

at PMQ Corbyn gets up to near silence from the benches behind him.

it can only be job preservation that stops the centre-left leaving Corbyns labour. JC has such a mandate from the membership that they can't get rid. just can't see it going 4 and a half years til the election as it is though

[horseplayer]

As everyone keeps saying lets not talk about Corbyn then somebody does again how about this

https://t.co/fhlAyl7Bpv

Some really good case studies there, the one about working weekends with no support staff the most pertinent to me.

[TightEnd]

a few people (largely left leaning people) say lets not talk about Corbyn, not everyone

i for one want to, its fascinating to see such a naked power struggle play out day after day

[doubleup]

As everyone keeps saying lets not talk about Corbyn then somebody does again how about this

https://t.co/fhlAyl7Bpv

Some really good case studies there, the one about working weekends with no support staff the most pertinent to me.

Well anyway at least Corbyn's not the Jeremy that should become rhyming slang.

[nirvana]

a few people (largely left leaning people) say lets not talk about Corbyn, not everyone

i for one want to, its fascinating to see such a naked power struggle play out day after day

Perfectly reasonable to talk about him I think. This won't ultimately be a power struggle - pretty sure you can't be leader and the nation's conscience - particularly if that conscience is shaped from a singular perspective and (most likely) destined to remain rhetoric. Don't mind him trying though and happy to listen to him rather than smash him up.

[DaveShoelace]

Deffo talk about Corbyn, he is the most interesting thing in British politics.

Gets us talking about all kinds of stuff.

Fascinating how transparantly most of fleet street seem to be so determined distort everything he does.

Really forces me to question what I value the most in this world, because if he is still around at the next election I have no idea what to do with my vote.

And, plenty of good cheap laughs to be had.

[kukushkin88]

Not to mention the House of Lord's having to intervene in a financial matter for the first time in over 100 years of British Government because of a callous and ill thought out policy that would have brought thousands more people below the poverty line.

[nitpicking]  Don't think it was technically a finance bill, it was a SI.  If Osborne had included his changes in an actual (Budget) Finance Bill, they couldn't have been stopped by the Lords afaik. [/nitpicking]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc09f85c-7c03-11e5-a1fe-567b37f80b64.html#axzz3rsIoG7kT

Cameron and Osborne both said the Lord's didn't have the constitutional authority to overrule what was a financial bill prior to it being defeated. That turned out well. If it wasn't tragic for the poor, unwell and disabled people of this country it would be amusing how much the power of winning a small majority (5th smallest since 1831) went to Osborne's head. 

[doubleup]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Act_1911

If it had been a genuine Finance Bill they wouldn't have been able to block it.  It wasn't even a bill, it was a statutory instrument as I said.

Obv Osborne was going to BS as it was his tactical error not to get whatever he wanted to get done designated as a finance bill by the Speaker.

Can't see the FT link due to firewall?  Are they saying it was designated by the speaker?

[Marky147]

Not to mention the House of Lord's having to intervene in a financial matter for the first time in over 100 years of British Government because of a callous and ill thought out policy that would have brought thousands more people below the poverty line.

[nitpicking]  Don't think it was technically a finance bill, it was a SI.  If Osborne had included his changes in an actual (Budget) Finance Bill, they couldn't have been stopped by the Lords afaik. [/nitpicking]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc09f85c-7c03-11e5-a1fe-567b37f80b64.html#axzz3rsIoG7kT

Cameron and Osborne both said the Lord's didn't have the constitutional authority to overrule what was a financial bill prior to it being defeated. That turned out well. If it wasn't tragic for the poor, unwell and disabled people of this country it would be amusing how much the power of winning a small majority (5th smallest since 1831) went to Osborne's head. 

Kush, you're gonna send me to dignitas if you keep telling me how tragic things are going to be for me

[kukushkin88]

Not to mention the House of Lord's having to intervene in a financial matter for the first time in over 100 years of British Government because of a callous and ill thought out policy that would have brought thousands more people below the poverty line.

[nitpicking]  Don't think it was technically a finance bill, it was a SI.  If Osborne had included his changes in an actual (Budget) Finance Bill, they couldn't have been stopped by the Lords afaik. [/nitpicking]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc09f85c-7c03-11e5-a1fe-567b37f80b64.html#axzz3rsIoG7kT

Cameron and Osborne both said the Lord's didn't have the constitutional authority to overrule what was a financial bill prior to it being defeated. That turned out well. If it wasn't tragic for the poor, unwell and disabled people of this country it would be amusing how much the power of winning a small majority (5th smallest since 1831) went to Osborne's head. 

Kush, you're gonna send me to dignitas if you keep telling me how tragic things are going to be for me

As long as I keep running like Biff with the Sports Almanac from BTTF on the American Football, it'll be just fine :-) I'll be putting some strong bets up for this weekend.