The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[vegaslover]

Question of the day

Do you think most politicians are inherently untrustworthy? Maybe even bad people in some way or other? Is politics a field which attracts power hungry sociopaths, or are they mostly people trying to improve the world? Again, obviously we know there are the outliers on both sides, so no need to point that out, I'm talking about the majority.

Wouldn't trust a single politician

[DungBeetle]

Question of the day

Do you think most politicians are inherently untrustworthy? Maybe even bad people in some way or other? Is politics a field which attracts power hungry sociopaths, or are they mostly people trying to improve the world? Again, obviously we know there are the outliers on both sides, so no need to point that out, I'm talking about the majority.

Wouldn't trust a single politician

Nor would I.  But the quesiton is are the fundamentally dishonest, or is it the need to save your skin every 5 years that drives them to it?   Do we have a flawed political model?

[George2Loose]

Our politicians reflect what we want to see in them.

You get someone who is possibly more honest than most in Corbyn and he is "unelectable"

There's a reason they avoid answering any questions. Maybe the media are also to blame

[TightEnd]

Our politicians reflect what we want to see in them.

You get someone who is possibly more honest than most in Corbyn and he is "unelectable"

There's a reason they avoid answering any questions. Maybe the media are also to blame

He is unelectable, if he is its unproven, because of his views not his honesty.

[kukushkin88]

Our politicians reflect what we want to see in them.

You get someone who is possibly more honest than most in Corbyn and he is "unelectable"

There's a reason they avoid answering any questions. Maybe the media are also to blame

He is unelectable, if he is its unproven, because of his views not his honesty.

If he is unelectable, it's because he believes integrity and conviction is more important than doing/saying anything and everything to be electable. Isn't he making a good point?

[kukushkin88]

Our politicians reflect what we want to see in them.

You get someone who is possibly more honest than most in Corbyn and he is "unelectable"

There's a reason they avoid answering any questions. Maybe the media are also to blame

He is unelectable, if he is its unproven, because of his views not his honesty.

If he is unelectable, it's because he believes integrity and conviction is more important than doing/saying anything and everything to be electable. Isn't he making a good point?

I think the one thing we all agree on is that British politics needs an overhaul, yet based on this thread you'd swear everybody wants an opposition desperately sucking up to Murdoch and Dacre to try and be electable. I obviously fear for the country at the moment (especially the disabled and unwell), in spite of that I can't help but admire Corbyn.

[DungBeetle]

Our politicians reflect what we want to see in them.

You get someone who is possibly more honest than most in Corbyn and he is "unelectable"

There's a reason they avoid answering any questions. Maybe the media are also to blame

He is unelectable, if he is its unproven, because of his views not his honesty.

If he is unelectable, it's because he believes integrity and conviction is more important than doing/saying anything and everything to be electable. Isn't he making a good point?

I agree.  Would you also say the same of the Tories to a lesser extent?  Seems to me making significant cuts to tax credits is more likely to lose you votes than win them, and leave you open to attack that you're ideological nutjobs.  If the Tories believe those cuts are right for the country aren't they also taking the harder option and showing integrity and conviction?

[david3103]

Our politicians reflect what we want to see in them.

You get someone who is possibly more honest than most in Corbyn and he is "unelectable"

There's a reason they avoid answering any questions. Maybe the media are also to blame

He is unelectable, if he is its unproven, because of his views not his honesty.

If he is unelectable, it's because he believes integrity and conviction is more important than doing/saying anything and everything to be electable. Isn't he making a good point?

I think the one thing we all agree on is that British politics needs an overhaul, yet based on this thread you'd swear everybody wants an opposition desperately sucking up to Murdoch and Dacre to try and be electable. I obviously fear for the country at the moment (especially the disabled and unwell), in spite of that I can't help but admire Corbyn.

So much here to agree with. Particularly the sucking up to the media line. The political bias in the daily news is a major concern for a true democracy. Can't see much of a solution though, the bulk of newspapers sold are red top and thus the bulk of public opinion is formed by biased reporting of outlying issues like "Granny left on trolley in hospital corridor" rather than any meaningful investigation or explanation of the underlying problems in the NHS.

[DaveShoelace]

Question of the day

What would happen if Britain became socialist?

Please refrain from simply saying 'it would go down the pan' or 'The world would be a better place'. What sort of changes would happen in society, and why do you believe that?

[DungBeetle]

Think we need some kind of parameters to think of the impact as there are different degrees. 

What percentage of GDP will government spending be responsible for?
What will income tax rates be?
What will corporation tax rates be?
What industries will be nationalised?
Any new taxes introduced?

[DaveShoelace]

Think we need some kind of parameters to think of the impact as there are different degrees. 

What percentage of GDP will government spending be responsible for?
What will income tax rates be?
What will corporation tax rates be?
What industries will be nationalised?
Any new taxes introduced?

Well that's taken all the fun out of it.

Ok let's just say that Jeremy Corbyn has just won the election and in his victory speech he announced 'Britain is now socialist'. What are your hopes and concerns at this point?

[AlunB]

Our politicians reflect what we want to see in them.

You get someone who is possibly more honest than most in Corbyn and he is "unelectable"

There's a reason they avoid answering any questions. Maybe the media are also to blame

He is unelectable, if he is its unproven, because of his views not his honesty.

If he is unelectable, it's because he believes integrity and conviction is more important than doing/saying anything and everything to be electable. Isn't he making a good point?

I think the one thing we all agree on is that British politics needs an overhaul, yet based on this thread you'd swear everybody wants an opposition desperately sucking up to Murdoch and Dacre to try and be electable. I obviously fear for the country at the moment (especially the disabled and unwell), in spite of that I can't help but admire Corbyn.

Why are these two things in conflict?

[DungBeetle]

Think we need some kind of parameters to think of the impact as there are different degrees. 

What percentage of GDP will government spending be responsible for?
What will income tax rates be?
What will corporation tax rates be?
What industries will be nationalised?
Any new taxes introduced?

Well that's taken all the fun out of it.

Ok let's just say that Jeremy Corbyn has just won the election and in his victory speech he announced 'Britain is now socialist'. What are your hopes and concerns at this point?

Well personally I think it would be a bad thing, but trying to be objective if we are just talking in a vacuum:

HOPES:
Increased social cohesion
Railways give better value for money post nationalisation
Energy firms regulated more strictly
More opportunities for lower paid workers

FEARS:
It's a less attractive place to set up business due to tax and red tape
High earners leave (along with their PAYE revenue)
Banking sector leaves due to red tape and Tobin Tax
Significant black hole in Government revenue
People's QE used to excess to fund government pet projects
Currency devaluation due to People's QE
Increased Union disruption leading to loss of productivity
Military downgraded even further than it is currently

[ripple11]

Think we need some kind of parameters to think of the impact as there are different degrees. 

What percentage of GDP will government spending be responsible for?
What will income tax rates be?
What will corporation tax rates be?
What industries will be nationalised?
Any new taxes introduced?

Well that's taken all the fun out of it.

Ok let's just say that Jeremy Corbyn has just won the election and in his victory speech he announced 'Britain is now socialist'. What are your hopes and concerns at this point?

......the bank transfer went through ok, and the Cayman Island flight is on time.

[AlunB]

Think we need some kind of parameters to think of the impact as there are different degrees. 

What percentage of GDP will government spending be responsible for?
What will income tax rates be?
What will corporation tax rates be?
What industries will be nationalised?
Any new taxes introduced?

Well that's taken all the fun out of it.

Ok let's just say that Jeremy Corbyn has just won the election and in his victory speech he announced 'Britain is now socialist'. What are your hopes and concerns at this point?

Well personally I think it would be a bad thing, but trying to be objective if we are just talking in a vacuum:

HOPES:
Increased social cohesion
Railways give better value for money post nationalisation
Energy firms regulated more strictly
More opportunities for lower paid workers

FEARS:
It's a less attractive place to set up business due to tax and red tape
High earners leave (along with their PAYE revenue)
Banking sector leaves due to red tape and Tobin Tax
Significant black hole in Government revenue
People's QE used to excess to fund government pet projects
Currency devaluation due to People's QE
Increased Union disruption leading to loss of productivity
Military downgraded even further than it is currently

And go where?