The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

one scenario posted was as follows

UK gets recession

Boris becomes PM

Labour changes leader

General Election called

Public regrets Brexit

Labour pledges 2nd referendum.

Wins

Doesn't the 5 fear fixed parliament act guard against this? 

In the wake of the Panama Papers scandal, a petition was created on the Parliamentary Petitions Page that called for a General Election after Prime Minister David Cameron revealed that he had had investments in an offshore trust.[7] After having passed the threshold of 100,000 signatures, the government response cited the Fixed Term Parliament Act to state that "no Government can call an early general election any more anyway"

there is a mechanism that allows it. would need to look up what it is, but however unlikely its there.

the idea goes that we get a new PM, the new PM negotiates an exit deal, then calls a snap election to get a mandate for it and then wins and have 5 years to implement it rather than going to the polls in 2020

the fear of this is in part why some of the PLP want to replace corbyn now, give them a shot at winning it

[TightEnd]

a veteran northern journalist takes a shot at quantifying the cost of brexit for his region

Brexit widens the north-south divide as poorest areas stand to lose £8.5bn | Peter Hetherington http://gu.com/p/4m64z/stw 

[TightEnd]

Mark Urban ‏@MarkUrban01 (bbc diplomatic editor)

Key question for UK now: will it accept EU freedom of movement principle: without that chance of access to single market almost zero #Brexit

[TightEnd]

Mark Urban ‏@MarkUrban01

Strong chance of new Scottish #indyref creates major questions for Trident replacement, its cost, & UK future as nuclear weapons state

[BigAdz]

Brexit is the stuff of nightmares - removing Jeremy Corbyn won't help says this article

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/brexit-stuff-nightmares-removing-jeremy-corbyn-wont-help

I said weeks ago that if LEAVE won the vote by a narrow margin that Corbyn would be to blame. He couldn't have handled it any worse. Giving a half hearted response to this and showing clear signs that he wasn't fussed about the outcome. To me, this is a man who wants to take his chance in a snap general election. I won't vote for him, I want him out & he has really cost the remain campaign.

People celebrating Cameron is gone too, despise the tories myself, but he is a far more trusting character, in my eyes, than Blunder Boris. Boris loves the fame, loves the limelight, loves the money and blunders every day.

Absolutely lol at some of the leave voters though on BBC/ITV today. Some of them actually saying they wished they voted in!

I've become very bitter about this. It seems complete madness to leave. I'm just hoping that these hardline leave supporters get to experience themselves the reality of their vote in months and

Sorry Aaron, I like a lot of your input, but with an attitude like this you don't deserve to live in a democracy

[BigAdz]

I'm pretty sure that whichever party puts a 2nd referendum into its manifesto will get elected.

Problem is that the unelected drunkard Juncker wants us to move quickly and any election is likely too late?

Plus nobody is going to believe Corbyn after his half arsed performance in the weeks before the referendum, the tories aren't ever putting that in a manifesto, and the library demo are crippled.   Maybe the SNP should put up candidates outside Scotland??

Edit I realise he was elected, just not by the people he is lording it over.

I think you will find your first line about unelected drunkards calling the shots is why plenty voted for out in the first place.

[TightEnd]

oh good, here's one that explains rather than tells us its terrible

'If you've got money, you vote in ... if you haven't got money, you vote out'

"Brexit is about more than the EU: it’s about class, inequality, and voters feeling excluded from politics. So how do we even begin to put Britain the right way up? "

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster?CMP=share_btn_tw

[BigAdz]

I love working with people of all nationalities, I have learned so much about different cultures and histories just by talking to these people. In the hospitality trade most of the staff are foreign due to the fact that the British feel it's a career 'beneath them' and believe they are better than minimum wage.

Here in Guernsey a company has to advertise a job locally for 2 weeks before they can advertise worldwide, we get zero applications from local people!

The vote is done rather than all the doom and gloom I believe the UK will become stronger for it, but that's just my opinion.

You can go on about immigration etc, but the real, real root cause has been weak governments happy to pay tucking lazy stats too much to do nothing.

As taxi refers to, the fact people won't give up their dole money unless they get £x, is the initial problem. This then creates positions for immigrants to take, and so the circle begins. This country should never have a need to let people in to pick fruit because local unemployed think it is too hard work for the money.

If we had stronger Government that MADE people work, stuff such as trade agreements, the reason we joined the EU, would probably all still be in place.

[PokerBroker]

I personally see no way Labour can win a GE.  They are pretty much persona non grata in Scotland.  If they try and field candidates in traditional Labour areas where the working class voted out in order to try and overturn the debate they are punished more so probably lose more seats than they gain.  

The whole Corbyn thing is strange to me, they PLP haven't been happy from day 1, JC never wanted the job in the first place.  Pretty much everyone knew Corbyns opinion on the EU, andit seemed he was being bullied by the PLP to get behind the Remain campaign.  

It's clear Corbyn wants to renationalise many services and he can't do that whilst in the EU so it seems to me he actually wanted out, I only wish he had the balls to say "I'm Out"  Out would have won it with a greater margin, and there possibly could have been further renegotiation with the EU to see if a better deal could be struck.

It's not like people in the UK are the only ones with issues with the EU, Portugal voted in their last election a Socialist party who wanted out, The French workers have  major issues with the EU - not just their right - there are other countries in which the people actually don't like what we have.  Spain, Holland, Italy, Greece even the Germans.  

In principle f the people are put at the heart of it, I could support some form or EU lite.  But for as long as it is controlled by big business and corporations and is all about trade I'm always going to be out.  

[PokerBroker]

I love working with people of all nationalities, I have learned so much about different cultures and histories just by talking to these people. In the hospitality trade most of the staff are foreign due to the fact that the British feel it's a career 'beneath them' and believe they are better than minimum wage.

Here in Guernsey a company has to advertise a job locally for 2 weeks before they can advertise worldwide, we get zero applications from local people!

The vote is done rather than all the doom and gloom I believe the UK will become stronger for it, but that's just my opinion.

You can go on about immigration etc, but the real, real root cause has been weak governments happy to pay tucking lazy stats too much to do nothing.

As taxi refers to, the fact people won't give up their dole money unless they get £x, is the initial problem. This then creates positions for immigrants to take, and so the circle begins. This country should never have a need to let people in to pick fruit because local unemployed think it is too hard work for the money.

If we had stronger Government that MADE people work, stuff such as trade agreements, the reason we joined the EU, would probably all still be in place.

You can't just make people work.  Not unless you become almost communist in outlook.  We have never had 100% employment. 

People won't work unless they get a decent day's pay, and why should they?  That sais at the other side of the spectrum there is proper greed.  We should have a cap and collar on salaries the cap shouldn't allow people to become filthy rich that they have so much money they don't know what to do with it, the collar should be set at a level were folk working were able to lead a decent standard of life. 

[TightEnd]

 

In principle f the people are put at the heart of it, I could support some form or EU lite.  But for as long as it is controlled by big business and corporations and is all about trade I'm always going to be out. 

its a free trade area first and foremost, all the political ideal stuff came way after that, its a way for businesses big and small to trade.

what do you expect it to be about?!

as we are about to find out in negotiating seperate trade deals with each EU country and then all the non EU countries, its going to be vey time consuming

good time to be a trade lawyer thats for sure

[nirvana]

one scenario posted was as follows

UK gets recession

Boris becomes PM

Labour changes leader

General Election called

Public regrets Brexit

Labour pledges 2nd referendum.

Wins

Doesn't the 5 fear fixed parliament act guard against this? 

In the wake of the Panama Papers scandal, a petition was created on the Parliamentary Petitions Page that called for a General Election after Prime Minister David Cameron revealed that he had had investments in an offshore trust.[7] After having passed the threshold of 100,000 signatures, the government response cited the Fixed Term Parliament Act to state that "no Government can call an early general election any more anyway"

I was reading about this yesterday. Parliament with something like 2/3rd support among mps can resolve to have an election

[TightEnd]

I love working with people of all nationalities, I have learned so much about different cultures and histories just by talking to these people. In the hospitality trade most of the staff are foreign due to the fact that the British feel it's a career 'beneath them' and believe they are better than minimum wage.

Here in Guernsey a company has to advertise a job locally for 2 weeks before they can advertise worldwide, we get zero applications from local people!

The vote is done rather than all the doom and gloom I believe the UK will become stronger for it, but that's just my opinion.

You can go on about immigration etc, but the real, real root cause has been weak governments happy to pay tucking lazy stats too much to do nothing.

As taxi refers to, the fact people won't give up their dole money unless they get £x, is the initial problem. This then creates positions for immigrants to take, and so the circle begins. This country should never have a need to let people in to pick fruit because local unemployed think it is too hard work for the money.

If we had stronger Government that MADE people work, stuff such as trade agreements, the reason we joined the EU, would probably all still be in place.

You can't just make people work.  Not unless you become almost communist in outlook.  We have never had 100% employment. 

People won't work unless they get a decent day's pay, and why should they?  That sais at the other side of the spectrum there is proper greed.  We should have a cap and collar on salaries the cap shouldn't allow people to become filthy rich that they have so much money they don't know what to do with it, the collar should be set at a level were folk working were able to lead a decent standard of life. 

Bonkers

its market forces and much as you would wish we can't just put market forces in a box and hide it uneder the bed never to be seen again

there would be a massive talent drain. fine you say let them fuck off. however the disproportionate impact on tax revenue would be felt by the rest of the country in lower budgets elsewhere or higher taxes

the solution isn't to artificially impose wage caps on certain industries, those industries simply will not operate here.

as one example of this, it was talked about yesterday that BNP Paribas and JP Morgan would have to move their headquarters to dublin or frankfurt to enable the firms still to operate in the single market

thats 7500 bankers it says, in phase one. thats a couple of billion (the estimate was £5bn, but lets underegg it a bit) out of the HMRC coffers straight away. 

[nirvana]

Net migration figures are going to get worse not better.

If Brits can't leave the uk and live in Spain then the net change could be 100k worse, also the state of their pensions are key here, with a much lower stock market, they can't afford a costa villa so won't move.

A market danced up and down a bit yesterday because something momentous happened. We can't say that the stock market will be much lower  - I mean , get some graphs out and look at what the stock market does every day, every month, every year and then you might be able to sleep easier

[BigAdz]

I love working with people of all nationalities, I have learned so much about different cultures and histories just by talking to these people. In the hospitality trade most of the staff are foreign due to the fact that the British feel it's a career 'beneath them' and believe they are better than minimum wage.

Here in Guernsey a company has to advertise a job locally for 2 weeks before they can advertise worldwide, we get zero applications from local people!

The vote is done rather than all the doom and gloom I believe the UK will become stronger for it, but that's just my opinion.

You can go on about immigration etc, but the real, real root cause has been weak governments happy to pay tucking lazy stats too much to do nothing.

As taxi refers to, the fact people won't give up their dole money unless they get £x, is the initial problem. This then creates positions for immigrants to take, and so the circle begins. This country should never have a need to let people in to pick fruit because local unemployed think it is too hard work for the money.

If we had stronger Government that MADE people work, stuff such as trade agreements, the reason we joined the EU, would probably all still be in place.

You can't just make people work.  Not unless you become almost communist in outlook.  We have never had 100% employment. 

People won't work unless they get a decent day's pay, and why should they?  That sais at the other side of the spectrum there is proper greed.  We should have a cap and collar on salaries the cap shouldn't allow people to become filthy rich that they have so much money they don't know what to do with it, the collar should be set at a level were folk working were able to lead a decent standard of life. 

Sorry. Don't buy this.

Do we not have the minimum wage to counteract this.

Maybe you need to get out and about more. You dont have to go very far in any town to find people/families that could work, but choose not to because the system pays them enough so they dont need to. I suspect this number does run into millions.