The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Sheriff Fatman]

Sam Freedman ‏@Samfr

If Leadsom became PM the possibility of a breakaway centrist party becomes non-trivial.

 Sam Freedman ‏@Samfr

Still unlikely but you'd have a lot of unhappy Tory and Labour MPs, who agree on quite a lot, trying to find a way out.

There's no way this can succeed if if involves Tory and Labour MPs.  A breakaway of Labour MPs is one thing, possibly aligned with the Lib Dems, and that would stand a chance.  It's primary purpose would be to oppose the Tory party, so by default it can't include anyone from it.

One success of the Labour/Momentum campaign seems to be that people actually believe that 'Red Tories' exist.

[TightEnd]

Sam Freedman ‏@Samfr

If Leadsom became PM the possibility of a breakaway centrist party becomes non-trivial.

 Sam Freedman ‏@Samfr

Still unlikely but you'd have a lot of unhappy Tory and Labour MPs, who agree on quite a lot, trying to find a way out.

There's no way this can succeed if if involves Tory and Labour MPs.  A breakaway of Labour MPs is one thing, possibly aligned with the Lib Dems, and that would stand a chance.  It's primary purpose would be to oppose the Tory party, so by default it can't include anyone from it.

One success of the Labour/Momentum campaign seems to be that people actually believe that 'Red Tories' exist.

not sure i agree.

not much between a one nation tory and a liz kendall. the lib dems have also worked with the tories for 5 years

if you get leadsom v corbyn appealing to hard right and hard left respectively there is a huge gap in the middle

the marginal british voter is by definition one side or other of middle and there's a big space for something to emerge, breaking down traditional labels on conservative/labour/lib dem

probably won't happen, but its a time for out of the box thinking if its leadsom and corbyn

by the by, having spent 6 years under cameron and osborne "modernising" and moving to the centre vacated by labour (which we talked about on here a lot), only the conservative members could now (possibly) vacate the middle ground where elections are won

[TightEnd]

if anyone wants a deep delve into sociology-economics-political philosophy

"It’s NOT the economy, stupid: Brexit as a story of personal values"

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/personal-values-brexit-vote/

[DMorgan]

Just watching QT from last night. The face that Hislop pulls for his introduction has to be a troll right? Never seen him do that on HIGNFY

They do seem to try to keep the camera on the guests for long enough to make them uncomfortable since all they're allowed to do it try to look normal

[Archer]

Cliffs on why she is a hard righter

I know she opposed gay marriage and was a brexit-er, anything else?

Jesus. Got back from a trip to Belarus to ponder a worrying thought. It was bad enough finding the wife in a menstrual strop, only to hear we will have a woman PM next.

I fear for us all when you get Hilary, Teresa, Angela and ,Christine Legard in a room at the wrong time of the month together, discussing the world's problems.....

is this serious? there is no smiley

this is 2016 not 1956!

Click to see full-size image.

[Sheriff Fatman]

not sure i agree.

not much between a one nation tory and a liz kendall.

Not to you, maybe, but I see an unbreachable chasm of a difference.

I'd already mentioned to one nation thing previously, but it's absolutely meaningless to someone like myself, who just sees a Tory as a Tory.

Isn't Cameron a one-nation Tory?  If so, it pretty much demonstrates my point.

You were surprised after Cameron resigned that there was little concern from those happy about this as to what was to follow.  That's because they don't see a meaningful difference, whereas you do.

Not a hope in hell that any centre party involving ex-Tory MPs in any significance ever gets my vote.  It's saying a lot to say this, but I'd even choose the Corbyn led Labour disaster ahead of this on principle.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Interesting article by Yvette Cooper on Theresa May, who probably knows more about her than most.

It's not Pro-Leadsom, but just skim-reading the headline might make you think otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/theresa-may-britain-tory-candidate

[ripple11]

Interesting article by Yvette Cooper on Theresa May, who probably knows more about her than most.

It's not Pro-Leadsom, but just skim-reading the headline might make you think otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/theresa-may-britain-tory-candidate

To beat May, Labour must be a strong and effective opposition...she says.

Well she'd be better off turning her attention to that, because for a long time the Tories could put up Jessie May up as PM and still win a General Election.

[vegaslover]

Just watching QT from last night. The face that Hislop pulls for his introduction has to be a troll right? Never seen him do that on HIGNFY

They do seem to try to keep the camera on the guests for long enough to make them uncomfortable since all they're allowed to do it try to look normal

Yeah, noticed that last night. Thought he would gunning to make a point, but turned off after half an hour, couldn't match last weeks

[Jon MW]

not sure i agree.

not much between a one nation tory and a liz kendall.

Not to you, maybe, but I see an unbreachable chasm of a difference.

I'd already mentioned to one nation thing previously, but it's absolutely meaningless to someone like myself, who just sees a Tory as a Tory.

Isn't Cameron a one-nation Tory?  If so, it pretty much demonstrates my point.

You were surprised after Cameron resigned that there was little concern from those happy about this as to what was to follow.  That's because they don't see a meaningful difference, whereas you do.

Not a hope in hell that any centre party involving ex-Tory MPs in any significance ever gets my vote.  It's saying a lot to say this, but I'd even choose the Corbyn led Labour disaster ahead of this on principle.

So it doesn't matter what people do or believe in just what label they have?

[Sheriff Fatman]

not sure i agree.

not much between a one nation tory and a liz kendall.

Not to you, maybe, but I see an unbreachable chasm of a difference.

I'd already mentioned to one nation thing previously, but it's absolutely meaningless to someone like myself, who just sees a Tory as a Tory.

Isn't Cameron a one-nation Tory?  If so, it pretty much demonstrates my point.

You were surprised after Cameron resigned that there was little concern from those happy about this as to what was to follow.  That's because they don't see a meaningful difference, whereas you do.

Not a hope in hell that any centre party involving ex-Tory MPs in any significance ever gets my vote.  It's saying a lot to say this, but I'd even choose the Corbyn led Labour disaster ahead of this on principle.

So it doesn't matter what people do or believe in just what label they have?

It matters that at some point these people made a decision to join a party that was aligned to their beliefs and made fundamentally different choices.

I'm pretty sure too that Liz Kendall would object to being described as pretty much the same as a one nation Tory, and that the two cannot fundamentally sit within the same political party.

[neeko]

not sure i agree.

not much between a one nation tory and a liz kendall.

Not to you, maybe, but I see an unbreachable chasm of a difference.

I'd already mentioned to one nation thing previously, but it's absolutely meaningless to someone like myself, who just sees a Tory as a Tory.

Isn't Cameron a one-nation Tory?  If so, it pretty much demonstrates my point.

You were surprised after Cameron resigned that there was little concern from those happy about this as to what was to follow.  That's because they don't see a meaningful difference, whereas you do.

Not a hope in hell that any centre party involving ex-Tory MPs in any significance ever gets my vote.  It's saying a lot to say this, but I'd even choose the Corbyn led Labour disaster ahead of this on principle.

So it doesn't matter what people do or believe in just what label they have?

It matters that at some point these people made a decision to join a party that was aligned to their beliefs and made fundamentally different choices.

I'm pretty sure too that Liz Kendall would object to being described as pretty much the same as a one nation Tory, and that the two cannot fundamentally sit within the same political party.

Douglas Carswell = Ken Clarke
Tony Blair = Jeremy Corbyn

The difference between Tony and Ken is a lot less than the other match ups

[AndrewT]

Can'nt link as I'm on the phone but just look at the Times front page tomorrow - Andrea Leassom saying that she's a better bet to lead the country as she's had kids but Theresa May hasn't (they couldn't)

[Doobs]

not sure i agree.

not much between a one nation tory and a liz kendall.

Not to you, maybe, but I see an unbreachable chasm of a difference.

I'd already mentioned to one nation thing previously, but it's absolutely meaningless to someone like myself, who just sees a Tory as a Tory.

Isn't Cameron a one-nation Tory?  If so, it pretty much demonstrates my point.

You were surprised after Cameron resigned that there was little concern from those happy about this as to what was to follow.  That's because they don't see a meaningful difference, whereas you do.

Not a hope in hell that any centre party involving ex-Tory MPs in any significance ever gets my vote.  It's saying a lot to say this, but I'd even choose the Corbyn led Labour disaster ahead of this on principle.

So it doesn't matter what people do or believe in just what label they have?

It matters that at some point these people made a decision to join a party that was aligned to their beliefs and made fundamentally different choices.

I'm pretty sure too that Liz Kendall would object to being described as pretty much the same as a one nation Tory, and that the two cannot fundamentally sit within the same political party.

Douglas Carswell = Ken Clarke
Tony Blair = Jeremy Corbyn

The difference between Tony and Ken is a lot less than the other match ups

Yeah, this.

Not sure how left wing Teresa May is though.  I'd suggest there is a much bigger gap between May and Blair than between Clarke and Blair.

It is going to be very strange if we get to the next election with Leadsom and Corbyn in charge of the main parties. 

The lib dems must  be loving this.  12 months ago they looked on the way to the obituary column. 

[TightEnd]

Breaking 2016 is really 1956

probasbly plays quite well with the blue rinse brigade but pretty high risk and all rather yuk

Click to see full-size image.