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Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180181 times)
kukushkin88
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« Reply #13950 on: September 15, 2018, 03:16:43 PM »

Obvs no-one will watch this - so refreshing to see the style and class of this debate from 1975 - compared with the soundbitey twats that pass for MPs (large generalisation) thesedays. Oh for the days of cask aleand tankards




Proper, reasoned, courteous debate.
Every politician in the country should be compelled to watch it.

Micheal Foot at his best, and expressing views about the EU that are as valid today as they were then.
Edward Heath making his case in a reasoned way, but clearly as wrong then as he would be today.

I can’t think of a current labour politician that is fit to button Foot’s donkey jacket. Jeremy Corbyn isn’t fit to be the chewing gum on the sole of his shoes.

It would be interesting to know if you were such a big Foot fanboy in 1983 and if you were such a big Foot fan boy when he talked about anything other than membership of the Common Market/EU.

No, I wasn’t a massive Foot fan boy in 1983, but I still had respect for his intellect and his principles. There are many socialist MPs/politicians who warrant our respect. Foot, Barbara Xastle, Benn snr and jnr, Skinner, John Smith to name a few.

I’m not a fan of many in the current batch from either side (if there are still discernible sides).


OK, cool, makes sense to me. Thanks for the proper response. When I referenced “TB” the other day, which in itself was plain silly to be deliberately ambiguous, I meant Benn Snr.
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« Reply #13951 on: September 20, 2018, 07:46:00 AM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45578047

Seems like we are edging closer to the end game.

Nice to see the EU leaders giving May ten minutes to make her case at the end of dinner.

Their generosity knows no bounds.

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« Reply #13952 on: September 20, 2018, 02:41:56 PM »

Donald Tusk pronounces common rule book on goods and FCA dead: "We all agreed Chequers proposals for economic cooperation will not work, not least because it will undermine the single market".

someone somewhere has to compromise or else its no deal
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« Reply #13953 on: September 20, 2018, 03:18:30 PM »

Macron: "Brexit is the choice of the British people... pushed by those who predicted easy solutions... Those people are liars. They left the next day so they didn’t have to manage it."

drops microphone
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« Reply #13954 on: September 20, 2018, 03:24:48 PM »

Theresa May doesn't have the political room to go Norway even if she wanted to. So, if the EU won't bite on Chequers, then she is going to be pushed back towards Canada

a reminder

Norway

 Norway must allow the free movement of goods, capital, services and persons with its fellow members.

These are the EU's four fundamental freedoms as set out in the Treaty of Rome, the cherished accomplishment of Europe's drive towards peace and unity after World War II.

EEA members must accept EU rules in many important sectors, including competition, consumer protection and the environment, with rules updated automatically in line with EU legislation.

The big advantage for Britain in the Norway model is that its financial hub in London would remain undisturbed.

By remaining in the single market, the City of London would keep its unfettered access to Europe and remain the launching point for US and Asian banks into the EU.

Britain's vote to ditch the EU was a clear rejection in particular of freedom of movement, making the Norway option untenable fr the ERG

Canada

The lack of obligations on Canada in return for EU market access has made a CETA-style relationship attractive to some Brexiteers, as it would respect campaign promises to end large sums of money being sent to Brussels and allow greater controls on EU immigration.

But, critics have pointed out such an agreement would not offer the same level of access to EU markets for UK companies - especially in the dominant services sector - as currently enjoyed under Britain's membership of the single market and customs union.

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« Reply #13955 on: September 20, 2018, 03:29:19 PM »

a good photo can say a lot

Salzburg
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« Reply #13956 on: September 20, 2018, 03:56:59 PM »

Brexiteers are blaming the EU and Theresa May for the crisis but the truth is that Brexit is defeating itself,

says this

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/09/chequers-was-always-doomed-leavers-can-t-blame-eu-brexit-defeating-itself
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« Reply #13957 on: September 20, 2018, 03:57:57 PM »

Peston

When was there last a diplomatic and negotiating humiliation for the UK quite like May’s Salzburg debacle?

https://www.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2172510166407050/
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« Reply #13958 on: September 20, 2018, 05:03:13 PM »

Donald Tusk pronounces common rule book on goods and FCA dead: "We all agreed Chequers proposals for economic cooperation will not work, not least because it will undermine the single market".

someone somewhere has to compromise or else its no deal

Tusk still playing to the EU crowd. The whole thing at Salzburg is doing the same thing because secretly they are shitting themselves about the whole European project falling apart.

I was at a seminar with economists today, their view was it was still highly likely (65% plus) that a soft Brexit will be agreed.

Some interesting stuff about the exposure of certain European banks (particularly Italian and Spanish) to Turkish debt. That type of stuff could come back to haunt the EU/Eurozone too.


When push comes to shove, even Tusk and Barnier will want to protect the £341 billion a year sale of goods from EU to UK each year.

Every time the likes of Tusk open his mouth he’s just upping the ante. He might just push the retoric too far.

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« Reply #13959 on: September 20, 2018, 05:21:29 PM »

hopefully i am wrong but i think that is way too sanguine. 65% soft? wow ;-)

The EU's offer (acceptable/fair/moral or not) is this:

1) UK in single market + customs union (full rule taker)
2) GB trade deal, but N Ireland in SM/CU (internal border)
3) No deal

1 and 2 are very tough, 1 impossible for ERG, 2 impossible for DUP (on which government depends after the terrible election campaign) and 3 leads to short term dislocations/economic pain as UK government only started preparing for no deal in the summer
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« Reply #13960 on: September 20, 2018, 09:57:04 PM »

It is 10 days till the Tory conference in Birmingham, TM is only going to sound more right wing and Brexity until it finishes,

Then in the weeks after she will either u turn and get a deal, or u-turn and be stabbed in the back.

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« Reply #13961 on: September 21, 2018, 09:48:35 AM »

striking headline/front page
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« Reply #13962 on: September 21, 2018, 09:59:16 AM »

a brutal analysis of yesterday

"Not many people saw that coming. We all expected Brussels to be saying nice things about the Chequers proposals until after the Tory party conference at least.

They did not do that. Instead, they took Chequers down a back alley and kicked its head in. "

is the first part

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/09/20/brexit-brussels-just-got-serious
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« Reply #13963 on: September 21, 2018, 12:37:20 PM »

Dominic Raab: "We've revved up the motor of these negotiations... and the EU has just yanked up the handbrake"

Dominic Raab says the EU's responses to Chequers have so far been "dry legalism or dogmatic computer says no answers"

He adds: "There are question marks over whether the EU is really serious about the substance of these negotiations"
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« Reply #13964 on: September 21, 2018, 01:00:11 PM »

Latest rumour is a May statement at 1.45pm. Full lectern job. Let's see.
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