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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2181076 times)
MANTIS01
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« Reply #19830 on: August 16, 2019, 12:59:27 PM »

Confusing part for me is how referendum would allow us to vote for Leave with a deal

Just don’t get it

The deal is negotiated between two parties independently thereafter. If the mandate is ‘with a deal’ you give license to the one party to say there’s yer deal take it or leave it. Surely the only viable option is Leave or Remain and what happens after that simply happens
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« Reply #19831 on: August 16, 2019, 01:16:48 PM »

Confusing part for me is how referendum would allow us to vote for Leave with a deal

Just don’t get it

The deal is negotiated between two parties independently thereafter. If the mandate is ‘with a deal’ you give license to the one party to say there’s yer deal take it or leave it. Surely the only viable option is Leave or Remain and what happens after that simply happens

I do agree, it’s why it was so disingenuous for people to repeatedly say we would leave with a range of excellent deals. They should have said we’ll leave and what happens after that will be outside of our control, it would have sounded less appealing though I guess.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 01:24:41 PM by kukushkin88 » Logged
MANTIS01
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« Reply #19832 on: August 16, 2019, 02:23:25 PM »

The ballot paper said Leave, never mentioned great deals or such.

If there was a box saying ‘Leave with great deals’ I would deffo ticked it.
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« Reply #19833 on: August 16, 2019, 02:45:33 PM »

The ballot paper said Leave, never mentioned great deals or such.

If there was a box saying ‘Leave with great deals’ I would deffo ticked it.

If there was such an option for leaving with great deals then we’d have all ticket it?

Would it not be an option to have a second ref with sub options? Remain v Leave (deal or no deal)? Seems to me as been close to the middle ground as we can ever get
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Longines
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« Reply #19834 on: August 16, 2019, 03:11:05 PM »


Would it not be an option to have a second ref with sub options? Remain v Leave (deal or no deal)?

That unfairly splits the leave vote.
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« Reply #19835 on: August 16, 2019, 03:21:06 PM »


Would it not be an option to have a second ref with sub options? Remain v Leave (deal or no deal)?

That unfairly splits the leave vote.

If you have another vote where if you choose leave, every leave voter can choose between a deal or no deal? Surely the vote has to be split to get some sort of result that we can go foward with?
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« Reply #19836 on: August 16, 2019, 03:38:21 PM »

I'm not sure a plebiscite is the right mechanism to decide what form the exit deal should take, that's the Government and Parliament's job* in a representative democracy.

* yeah, I know.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #19837 on: August 16, 2019, 04:51:50 PM »

You could only choose to vote for a deal that’s already been agreed. So in this instance it’d be the Maybot deal, already thrice rejected by the parliament we voted for to make these decisions for us.

Then if a pre agreed deal that parliament rejected is offered as an option are we sure joe public will read and understand the implications properly? Would come to something if our future is decided by the comprehension of all these low earning ignorant racist paedos
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« Reply #19838 on: August 17, 2019, 08:30:05 AM »

I don't quite understand why MP's are so reluctant to vote for Corbyn. I know he's not flavour of the month, but if you want to stop a no deal brexit, then surely you have to grind your teeth and back him. To me it makes no difference of Corbyn is interim PM or Ken Clarke, they will surely be both be on the same side to stop no deal & go for a GE.

The Lib Dems will end up looking silly in all of this, with their immature leader. They'll vote with Corbyn and look like hypocrites, again.

An inability to block no deal will not be forgotten, that is for sure.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #19839 on: August 17, 2019, 09:03:38 AM »

In a Delta poll yesterday it was made clear Corbyn simply isn’t backed by the public

A small minority thought he was fit for purpose in this kind of situation with Boris scoring significantly higher in all areas of public confidence

The majority of voters wanted Leave (factions want to force Remain), the majority of people want a deal (MPs voted against a deal), the majority of pollsters don’t want Corbyn (factions want to force Corbyn upon us), Boris scored much higher in public confidence (MPs want to force no confidence vote)

It’s democracy folks. But not as we know it.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #19840 on: August 18, 2019, 09:49:40 AM »

Recent examples of t'internet interference include supposed Russian influence in USA elections and Cambridge Analytica affecting political opinion. Figure we must conclude that this kind of brainwashing and attempted influencing is rife in today's world.

As we approach Brexit there seems to be a spike in government 'leaks' e.g. looking to USA for new trade arrangement we suddenly 'leak' that Trump is an orange baboon (although our leaders don't fair any better in the primate stakes)

Now the Sunday Times have full scale project fear 'leak' about our impending doom. The full list is mighty frightening but my personal favourite is the 'public disorder and community tension created by the shortage of food'. But we also have shortage of medicine, less fresh food and rising prices, hard Irish border and violent protests, petrol less available, diabetics having to wait for insulin, frequent airport and port delays together with face melting if you look directly as the sun. 

Never fear because the major EU leaders are all meeting up and this humanitarian crisis should be discussed right? The Sunday Times also report "However No 10 said there will be very little discussion of Brexit during the meetings in France and Germany...it is thought that the leaders are more likely to discuss issues such as foreign policy, security, trade and the environment, ahead of the G7 summit next weekend"

It's a monkey madhouse and we're all doomed I tell ye!
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« Reply #19841 on: August 18, 2019, 11:46:54 AM »

The leaked paper is the first evidence that Germany may be preparing to let Britain walk away with No Deal rather than back down to Boris Johnson’s demand to drop the Irish backstop

(playing Boris at his own expectations management/PR game)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/16/germany-expects-no-deal-will-not-renegotiate-says-leaked-briefing/
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« Reply #19842 on: August 18, 2019, 11:49:09 AM »

In an article for the Times former chancellor Philip Hammond writes "to pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth". He mentions this piece by BBCRealityCheck

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836
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« Reply #19843 on: August 18, 2019, 11:50:37 AM »

Meanwhile Finkelstein in the times on On people who opposed any deal, hoping to stop Brexit:

 http://thetimes.co.uk/article/60119be2-bddf-11e9-8b63-a58ca55a4a3b
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« Reply #19844 on: August 18, 2019, 11:51:45 AM »

John Bercow vows to fight any attempt to close parliament in run-up to Brexit

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17834613.john-bercow-vows-fight-attempt-close-parliament-run-up-brexit/
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