The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Jon MW]

...
We hear the word undemocratic quite a bit and no doubt there’s scope for some different interpretation. Trying to stop people voting would do ok as a textbook example of something that’s undemocratic:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/general-election-date-aimed-to-restrict-student-vote-boris-johnson-aides-admit-g7zh5s7td?fbclid=IwAR2GcrC1DN3OS6cWKK4JJMcbc2-2qy1uNsD7rsNIM_QJEPsshjw7SDkdS_0

But isn't the earlier election date what the 'remain' faction wanted?

I don't see how a week or two is going to make much of a difference so isn't the alternative to an early election date one that is after the EU deadline?

Isn't this just an admission that they might gain a small advantage from that rather than some Machiavellian strategy they aimed for?

It should be the priority of everyone to do everything they can to maximise voter turnout. Even someone as unimportant as me spends time encouraging people who I know are Tories/leavers (and all other political persuasions) to vote.

We should - but that isn't what they're saying.

It also isn't what you said.

You said they were actively trying to stop and suppress voters - whereas it seems a lot more like just a comment on the situation.

[kukushkin88]

...
We hear the word undemocratic quite a bit and no doubt there’s scope for some different interpretation. Trying to stop people voting would do ok as a textbook example of something that’s undemocratic:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/general-election-date-aimed-to-restrict-student-vote-boris-johnson-aides-admit-g7zh5s7td?fbclid=IwAR2GcrC1DN3OS6cWKK4JJMcbc2-2qy1uNsD7rsNIM_QJEPsshjw7SDkdS_0

But isn't the earlier election date what the 'remain' faction wanted?

I don't see how a week or two is going to make much of a difference so isn't the alternative to an early election date one that is after the EU deadline?

Isn't this just an admission that they might gain a small advantage from that rather than some Machiavellian strategy they aimed for?

It should be the priority of everyone to do everything they can to maximise voter turnout. Even someone as unimportant as me spends time encouraging people who I know are Tories/leavers (and all other political persuasions) to vote.

We should - but that isn't what they're saying.

It also isn't what you said.

You said they were actively trying to stop and suppress voters - whereas it seems a lot more like just a comment on the situation.

If we’re taking the second paragraph at face value (we don’t have to of course), then I’m fine with what I wrote.

[StuartHopkin]

Why would mid October mean less student voters as opposed to say mid November?

[kukushkin88]

Why would mid October mean less student voters as opposed to say mid November?

Their thinking/hope is only that it’s nearer to the start of term and so less people will have transferred their voter reg. Hardly the crime of the century but a good example of something that is actually undemocratic.

[Longines]

Click to see full-size image.

[Karabiner]

Why would mid October mean less student voters as opposed to say mid November?

Their thinking/hope is only that it’s nearer to the start of term and so less people will have transferred their voter reg. Hardly the crime of the century but a good example of something that is actually undemocratic.

I thought that Labour/Corbyn/Green Chicken Alliance were worried that if they agreed to an October 15th election BJ might find a way to sneakily postpone it for a few weeks it in which case we would have crashed out of Europe with no deal.

[kukushkin88]

Why would mid October mean less student voters as opposed to say mid November?

Their thinking/hope is only that it’s nearer to the start of term and so less people will have transferred their voter reg. Hardly the crime of the century but a good example of something that is actually undemocratic.

I thought that Labour/Corbyn/Green Chicken Alliance were worried that if they agreed to an October 15th election BJ might find a way to sneakily postpone it for a few weeks it in which case we would have crashed out of Europe with no deal.

Yeah, that’s correct, they quite reasonably expect him to renege on everything he says. In this instance, I think they’re wrong about what he’d do but they should never depart from the message that he can’t ever be trusted in any way on any thing.

My nephew has a pretty funny singing/dancing/spinning chicken toy. If Boris really wants to goad Corbyn in to accepting an election he should get himself one and take it to the HoC on Monday.

[MANTIS01]

All this Boris wants to crash us out of Europe is rhubarb. What actual reason would he have to prefer that over a deal? What Boris actually wants is to be PM with a majority. That’s undoubtedly a priority over the Europe issue.

In his shoes I’d survey the landscape and detect an electorate sick to death of Brexit. To target that desperation for resolution I would have a firm immovable deadline. This would help stimulate a deal from EU but the associated benefit is my opposition would seek to extend the deadline and keep the whole Brexit circus rolling on. I might appear miffed but hey joe electorate i did my best but the opposition blocked me.

So I would call a GE to deliver that definitive resolution. What’s this joe electorate the opposition are blocking this too, continuing to stall and faff, despite how much you desperately want resolution. The more times they say I’m not to be trusted it comes across that you, joe electorate, are not to be trusted. They kept saying let the people decide and now that chance arrives they deny you that decision.

Then I’d hit the campaign trail nice and early talking about domestic issues, more public spending. Whilst my opposition are still chatting Brexit, blocking, delaying and wah wahing.

I deffo wanted a deal and didn’t want a GE but hey joe electorate just remember who’s trying to deliver resolution, who’s trying to respect your referendum, who wants to give you a say, who’s talking about domestic and of course remember those chicken front pages of JCorbs who hasn’t presented any plan at all. Yep I’d do all that and get my marketing man Cummings to wrap it all up in a multi million pound social media package just before you head to the polls.

[kukushkin88]

All this Boris wants to crash us out of Europe is rhubarb. What actual reason would he have to prefer that over a deal? What Boris actually wants is to be PM with a majority. That’s undoubtedly a priority over the Europe issue.

In his shoes I’d survey the landscape and detect an electorate sick to death of Brexit. To target that desperation for resolution I would have a firm immovable deadline. This would help stimulate a deal from EU but the associated benefit is my opposition would seek to extend the deadline and keep the whole Brexit circus rolling on. I might appear miffed but hey joe electorate i did my best but the opposition blocked me.

So I would call a GE to deliver that definitive resolution. What’s this joe electorate the opposition are blocking this too, continuing to stall and faff, despite how much you desperately want resolution. The more times they say I’m not to be trusted it comes across that you, joe electorate, are not to be trusted. They kept saying let the people decide and now that chance arrives they deny you that decision.

Then I’d hit the campaign trail nice and early talking about domestic issues, more public spending. Whilst my opposition are still chatting Brexit, blocking, delaying and wah wahing.

I deffo wanted a deal and didn’t want a GE but hey joe electorate just remember who’s trying to deliver resolution, who’s trying to respect your referendum, who wants to give you a say, who’s talking about domestic and of course remember those chicken front pages of JCorbs who hasn’t presented any plan at all. Yep I’d do all that and get my marketing man Cummings to wrap it all up in a multi million pound social media package just before you head to the polls.

[aaron1867]

I don’t really understand the strategy of the opposition and neither agree about taking no deal off the table. If the Tories somehow get a majority in the election, then they can overturn the law blocking no deal? So, when this election is doesn’t really matter?

I understand it & the strategy by the government had led to this, but no deal can still happen, just later down the line?

[nirvana]

Watching question time last night it was also noticeable what a bad look it was for Labour, especially in the guise of the incredibly arrogant Thornberry to be aligned with the SNP and LD MPs like Layla Moran (oh my she's vacuous)- both parties which have as much contempt for Corbyn as they do BJ.

[nirvana]

I don’t really understand the strategy of the opposition and neither agree about taking no deal off the table. If the Tories somehow get a majority in the election, then they can overturn the law blocking no deal? So, when this election is doesn’t really matter?

I understand it & the strategy by the government had led to this, but no deal can still happen, just later down the line?

I think they believe, probably rightly, that the timing does matter - mid Oct and they know they have a  50% chance of losing to the Tories with the Tories having an overall majority.

Delay to November and they hope that the fact we didn't leave will mean the pro democracy vote will be split. Ergo, we can have another hung parliament and delay Brexit for another few years or however long it takes for there to be another referendum

[TightEnd]

A must read blog

very good

"Johnson bulldozes Britain deeper into chaos. My latest (necessarily lengthy) Brexit Blog post on this week's developments, analysing some underlying causes and recurring themes, Johnson's character and tactics, and some thoughts on what comes next. Just up"

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/09/johnson-bulldozes-britain-deeper-into.html

[TightEnd]

Johnson's Dilemma

At Britain's looming election he cannot campaign fully for a No Deal because he'll alienate swing voters

But every time he says he wants a Deal he will alienate the Brexit Party voters, who overwhelmingly back No Deal


--

This is why delaying so the election is after 31 Oct is important to the "Rebel Alliance" It pincers him, and with it a lower chance of a Conservative majority

[tikay]

Johnson's Dilemma

At Britain's looming election he cannot campaign fully for a No Deal because he'll alienate swing voters

But every time he says he wants a Deal he will alienate the Brexit Party voters, who overwhelmingly back No Deal


--

This is why delaying so the election is after 31 Oct is important to the "Rebel Alliance" It pincers him, and with it a lower chance of a Conservative majority

Really? They favour No Deal?

How extraordinary.