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Author Topic: PLO10 6max - Flop decision heads up pot facing big check raise  (Read 5813 times)
Young_gun
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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2015, 04:34:52 PM »

Thanks Oxford that is a great point about flatting a strong % preflop which I will take note

As for players tendencies was playing zoom so difficult to get this after 1st go.

For the record I am not a newb at plo just hadn't played in  while. Only ever played here and there but do ok most of the time haha. Quite enjoyed zoom plo so played for a bit yesterday so getting back into the swing of it and all comments on here will help many thanks
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 07:57:18 PM »

I think the 3bet pre-flop is...sketchy...you can probably squeeze it into break-even because your hand is kind of OK and you're IP with a bit of extra room in the stacks, we have an Ace as well so probably won't get 4bet.

Thing is though, this specific hand, will play OK vs his whole range that opens, speshly IP, but this is kinda the problem with the 3bet, the equity advantage you have a tiny bit disadvantage i would think, and your advantage here comes from your position and the playability advantage you have down the streets, when you 3bet you shallow the SPR and thus reduce your post-flop advantage - if you had an equity advantage then this wouldn't be a problem as you can rarely do better than making someone put in money with a worse hand than yours at any point in a poker hand, but you don't!

Also, if you're 4bet then you must 10000% fold and that would be quite a shame given that our hand would be quite a nice one to call with OTB.

You will gain some edge here by the fact players at this stakes will call your 3bet probably 100% so he will call some hands eh shouldn't and some hands that are doing badly vs your hand but the reality is he probably isnt opening all that wide anyways and really we're just bloating the pot for no good reason.

On the flop you have a big problem... this flops slams both your ranges and he is wanting to commit 150big blinds...he has plenty of non KT stuff, but has KT plenty too, anything he has that is not KT will have plenty of outs... as Cos puts it...

We get dominated a lot and thus in trouble.

I don't think we can fold it - although perhaps in these games people are not c/r some of the NON-KT stuff they should be doing which could sway into a fold. Nasty spot.
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POWWWWWWWW
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2015, 03:27:41 AM »

I plugged in 3 diff ranges for villain using a UTG raise of 20% and 4% 4bet (AAxx). Not sure if this is accurate for these games at this level but again, like others have said, it's a pretty big mistake to be 3betting hands like this vs ranges you not sure of.

Edit: (for those unfamiliar with pokerjuice the bar graph on the right is the % time we can stack off on the turn vs the amount of time we have to fold. The circle above is the avg equity we will have vs villains range. The bar graph on the right is all the cards we can stack off on iven the pot odds and villians range. SOEQ_NS is the equity we need on the next street to be able to stack off given the odds and SOEQ is the equity we need to stack off on this street (flop)

First get it in range (GII) is pretty loose and I'd say pretty optimistic even for 10plo. So any 2pair+,any pair+straight draw and any flush draw.

 Click to see full-size image.


Second range would be a fairly solid GII range. QJ+,8T+, any Q+fd and any QT+

 Click to see full-size image.


Third is a tightish GII range. Any straight, any set, QT+fd.

 Click to see full-size image.


I've included cards we have odds to stack off vs the range, and as you can see we aren't folding an awful lot of turns in any scenario (after all we have the 2nd nuts).
The EV peel in the top right shows us how much money we are making, calling the flop and stacking off on these turns with the odds. Obv it's really close and can change from being EV+ to EV- with a slight range tweek.
Think the overall consensus though is it's marginal and I'd try to avoid getting into these spots when you're just starting out. BTN v CO you can go pretty wide 3betting but I'd save the top 10% maybe vs UTG depending on how loose they are.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 03:39:40 AM by POWWWWWWWW » Logged
POWWWWWWWW
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2015, 03:38:47 AM »

Opinions on villains range are welcome and I'll happily do some more sims based on these assumptions. I think this is a really interesting hand from a beginners perspective and shows PLO is ridiculous complex and deep.

Edit: these turn cards we can stack off on are all assuming the villain will shove 100% of turns, which in reality isn't true as players at plo10 are going to be checking whenever their hands are not the nuts anymore in big pots.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 03:41:30 AM by POWWWWWWWW » Logged
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