"The Online games are not fair anymore"

[SuuPRlim]

Think the answer to HUDs is multi-accounting right? I know when I play a big comp these days I use my mrs account. Aha-ha switcheroo!! what gud is ur hud now Mr Pro??

haha, go on Mantis! Got em!!!

On a serious point though, that actually is the answer.

[titaniumbean]

Think the answer to HUDs is multi-accounting right? I know when I play a big comp these days I use my mrs account. Aha-ha switcheroo!! what gud is ur hud now Mr Pro??

post more Brian 

[AlexMartin]

i think nirvana should post more in this thread, reevios suggestions for changing the ecosystem are really interesting.

[nirvana]

i think nirvana should post more in this thread, reevios suggestions for changing the ecosystem are really interesting.

Aaah, pretty boy, if only I had more time

[AlunB]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

This is very much like the surprisingly competitive nature of many play money poker players. You'd be amazed how serious some play money players are about the game, all for zero financial reward - it's all about status and the challenge of being better than other players.

Poker apparently the number one game on Twitch last night. Maybe this is the future of poker. Will mean a lot less money for pros (aside from top tier) and sites in the future if it is mind.

[tikay]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

This is very much like the surprisingly competitive nature of many play money poker players. You'd be amazed how serious some play money players are about the game, all for zero financial reward - it's all about status and the challenge of being better than other players.

Poker apparently the number one game on Twitch last night. Maybe this is the future of poker. Will mean a lot less money for pros (aside from top tier) and sites in the future if it is mind.

Presumably, most of that was WCOOP-based.

Jason Somerville had a terrific audience last night - see.....


http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=65415.30

[GreekStein]

Good move microgaming...

http://pokerfuse.com/news/live-and-online/27329-screen-names-changes-coming-mpn/

Cliffs: They're allowing a screen name change every 30 days or after 1000 hands of cash.

[muckthenuts]

Was told about a program called "spin wiz" which i believe ensures regs playing spin and go's will only ever be seated with non-regulars. Not 100% sure of the details though

[teddybloat]

I use spin wiz, but I also manually register alongside sitting 70% of spin wiz users using the program.

You cannot avoid regulars playing it. Indeed at lower to mid stakes, bad regs and non heads up regs would have more of a chance of avoiding regs by not having the software. But they will face fewer two reg games than without it. 90% of my games have one fellow spin wiz user in them, generally the other user is a recreational. 2 pure recreationas in the same game is rare 30s onward

Many of the best regs simply do not use the program. So you do get a lot of 3 reg games also.

If people would.find it interesting I could knock up a boss post on Husng  and spin and go seating software,  how.it works, the politics and ego. And winners and losers.

[Marky147]

I use spin wiz, but I also manually register alongside sitting 70% of spin wiz users using the program.

You cannot avoid regulars playing it. Indeed at lower to mid stakes, bad regs and non heads up regs would have more of a chance of avoiding regs by not having the software. But they will face fewer two reg games than without it. 90% of my games have one fellow spin wiz user in them, generally the other user is a recreational. 2 pure recreationas in the same game is rare 30s onward

Many of the best regs simply do not use the program. So you do get a lot of 3 reg games also.

If people would.find it interesting I could knock up a boss post on Husng  and spin and go seating software,  how.it works, the politics and ego. And winners and losers.

Doesn't affect me, but I'm always interested to read about things like this, so if you don't mind doing it, I'd like to see what the coup is.

Cheers, Teddy.

[tikay]

I use spin wiz, but I also manually register alongside sitting 70% of spin wiz users using the program.

You cannot avoid regulars playing it. Indeed at lower to mid stakes, bad regs and non heads up regs would have more of a chance of avoiding regs by not having the software. But they will face fewer two reg games than without it. 90% of my games have one fellow spin wiz user in them, generally the other user is a recreational. 2 pure recreationas in the same game is rare 30s onward

Many of the best regs simply do not use the program. So you do get a lot of 3 reg games also.

If people would.find it interesting I could knock up a boss post on Husng  and spin and go seating software,  how.it works, the politics and ego. And winners and losers.

Morning Teddy - well I'd certainly be interested. This whole idea of seating scripts & the like appals me, no matter how much people try & say "well it makes no difference", if it makes no difference, why do players use it?

Opinions generally - as this thread shows - are very polarised, & entrenched, but it helps me to understand what's what by reading & thinking about it.

You would also have seen above that Microgaming are going "anon" in an attempt to beat the HUD's & help recreationals. (Their words, not mine).

I'm really not sure about anon tables. To me, poker is about reads, tendencies, knowing what your opponent might or might not do. OK, in 3,000 runner fields on Stars we won't know many, but experience is part of the learning curve, & we start to get to know some of them.  I'm really surprised that Stars have let these third party software gizmos flourish.

What did 'Stars eventually do about Mr Hastings, & his co-conspirators, some of whom were 'Stars Pros? I lost track of the tale, & don't frequent 2+2 much. 

[jakally]

Was told about a program called "spin wiz" which i believe ensures regs playing spin and go's will only ever be seated with non-regulars. Not 100% sure of the details though

Makes me sad that every attempt to give Recs a better chance / fairer game is undermined in a short time period.

[teddybloat]

HUSNG  HYPER TURBO's

Regs all use a program called Sharkystator. You log into Sharky and it places you in a queue with all other users. when you get to the top of the queue it registers you into a lobby.

the queue is blind [so you cant see who is ahead of you, just your place in the line]. you can set sharky to sit players by using pokerstars colour codes. so you can ask it to sit all players marked 'yellow' and if any 'yellows' sit a lobby then you will jump ahead of anyone who doesnt also have a player marked.

what this meant is regs could hide in the queue and wait their turn to play a recreational without ever having to play a reg. this caused huge waiting times at some stakes. lines 80+ waittimes of 45 minutes between games.
 this lead to the formation of divisions or cartels at each stake. a division is basically the best regs at each stake all agreeing to protect their lobby and sit anyone who is not a member. this was incredibly bad for bumhunters and bad regulars. some people formally playing $200+ now cant play higher than $15's as they simply do not want to play regs / cannot beat the regs at that level. entry into all divisions up to 200's is very clear and simple: you play a set number of games against the division. if you achieve a certain ev roi [can be as low as -1.05%, so you lose only to rake] then you are in and they kick someone out. this means that being the worst reg in the division is an awful place to be. you have to give action to triers and you are constantly targetted by upmoving regs. eventually one of those triers will replace you.

It gets interesting above $200. its worth giving some background to the format here.

HUSNG's remain amongst the most profitable format of the game. once a recrational is at your table there is no option to sit out: you play till one player busts. they are extremely low variance. it is very unusual for a winning player to have a losing month. the variance is around 10x lower than for an MTT player. we can model this using software. the following is a model of 10000 husng regs playing 2k games a month with a 52.5% itm:



note that 90%+ have a winning month.

this means that being able to open sit a lobby at higher stakes is incredibly valuable. indeed as a standard the biggest winners at the game have locked their sharskscopes to hide their mirrion $$ giraffes from regs from other formats. one exception is skaiwalkutr. here is his hyper turbo sharkscope:  



the recent tail off is interesting and we'll get to that shortly. but note that that graph was produced by a 51.7% winrate. so he loses a huge amount of his games, but because of that ability to repeat that edge over and over, and the fact that regwarring has lowered his overall ITM but allowed him to play recreationals for huge sums,  he has managed to print $2.2m before rakeback. these games are valuable. and the higher stakes groups arent so easy to bust into. there are no automatic entry requirements, so you simply have to force them into allowing you in by making it unprofibale for them not to - but they have big bankrolls. that means regwarring most of your volume for month after month

hypers, despite the drop off in traffic, remain probably the most competetive format of the game outside of nosebleed cash. because you have to play regs the level of study is ridiculous. GTO simulators are poured over hours on end, the ev of lines discected from every possible angle. a lot of excting theory is coming from these studies. its incredibly competitive.

here is an interview with a british $500 reg, richard chadwick. he failed in his original attempt to get into the $1k group. his nemisis was dan 'mrg33n13' colman of onedrop and highroller fame. he ended up being $145k down to colman alone. such is the value of getting in people will risk insane amounts.

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-richard-chadders0-chadwick-i-stopped-my-1k-shots

recently a very intersting thing happened. 3 $1k regs quit the game - colman being one of them. kiluifiplay, jossel and mrg33n13: three of the biggest bankrolls, most experienced reg-warrers, and 3 of the absolute best at defednign their stakes simply left. this caused something of a bloodbath at the $1ks. people restarted their shot-taking. people from $300s up have been putting pressure on. and even highstakes cash players [tcfromUB being the most noatble example] have been putting volume in.

most interestingly a counter group has been formed, the so called bali-nine. a group of regs decided to band together / live together and study together and try to take the $1k lobbies by force. here are two interviews with a britsh member of group. the politics will astound:

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-1rake1-part-1

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-1rake1-part-2

look again at that skaiwalkurr graph. See the recent tailoff? The slope is one of a player losing to rake. Indeed he has played 7k games this year and won 50.1%. so losing $60k to the rake. His top ten most regular opponents form 4k of those games and are all established regs at $300+. So he has sacrificed 8 months income to keep these players out of his lobbies. [actually he is a boss in other formats, so will still be making money overall + rakeback].
Games in HUSNG’s are very competitive. Bumhunters need not apply

spinwiz follows: if anyone can tell me how to post images i'd be very grateful

[tikay]

Was told about a program called "spin wiz" which i believe ensures regs playing spin and go's will only ever be seated with non-regulars. Not 100% sure of the details though

Makes me sad that every attempt to give Recs a better chance / fairer game is undermined in a short time period.

How & why do 'Stars allow all this?

To me, poker should be person to person, no software aids, no folks on the rail watching a stream & telling their mates what's what, no skype naughtiness. (Can you imagine what goes off on Skype mid game?).

Imagine 9 players locked in a room. No electronic devices, nothing to reference. Just 9 players using their wits, intelligence, observation, & courage. That's poker. 

[tikay]

HUSNG  HYPER TURBO's

Regs all use a program called Sharkystator. You log into Sharky and it places you in a queue with all other users. when you get to the top of the queue it registers you into a lobby.

the queue is blind [so you cant see who is ahead of you, just your place in the line]. you can set sharky to sit players by using pokerstars colour codes. so you can ask it to sit all players marked 'yellow' and if any 'yellows' sit a lobby then you will jump ahead of anyone who doesnt also have a player marked.

what this meant is regs could hide in the queue and wait their turn to play a recreational without ever having to play a reg. this caused huge waiting times at some stakes. lines 80+ waittimes of 45 minutes between games.
 this lead to the formation of divisions or cartels at each stake. a division is basically the best regs at each stake all agreeing to protect their lobby and sit anyone who is not a member. this was incredibly bad for bumhunters and bad regulars. some people formally playing $200+ now cant play higher than $15's as they simply do not want to play regs / cannot beat the regs at that level. entry into all divisions up to 200's is very clear and simple: you play a set number of games against the division. if you achieve a certain ev roi [can be as low as -1.05%, so you lose only to rake] then you are in and they kick someone out. this means that being the worst reg in the division is an awful place to be. you have to give action to triers and you are constantly targetted by upmoving regs. eventually one of those triers will replace you.

It gets interesting above $200. its worth giving some background to the format here.

HUSNG's remain amongst the most profitable format of the game. once a recrational is at your table there is no option to sit out: you play till one player busts. they are extremely low variance. it is very unusual for a winning player to have a losing month. the variance is around 10x lower than for an MTT player. we can model this using software. the following is a model of 10000 husng regs playing 2k games a month with a 52.5% itm:



note that 90%+ have a winning month.

this means that being able to open sit a lobby at higher stakes is incredibly valuable. indeed as a standard the biggest winners at the game have locked their sharskscopes to hide their mirrion $$ giraffes from regs from other formats. one exception is skaiwalkutr. here is his hyper turbo sharkscope:  



the recent tail off is interesting and we'll get to that shortly. but note that that graph was produced by a 51.7% winrate. so he loses a huge amount of his games, but because of that ability to repeat that edge over and over, and the fact that regwarring has lowered his overall ITM but allowed him to play recreationals for huge sums,  he has managed to print $2.2m before rakeback. these games are valuable. and the higher stakes groups arent so easy to bust into. there are no automatic entry requirements, so you simply have to force them into allowing you in by making it unprofibale for them not to - but they have big bankrolls. that means regwarring most of your volume for month after month

hypers, despite the drop off in traffic, remain probably the most competetive format of the game outside of nosebleed cash. because you have to play regs the level of study is ridiculous. GTO simulators are poured over hours on end, the ev of lines discected from every possible angle. a lot of excting theory is coming from these studies. its incredibly competitive.

here is an interview with a british $500 reg, richard chadwick. he failed in his original attempt to get into the $1k group. his nemisis was dan 'mrg33n13' colman of onedrop and highroller fame. he ended up being $145k down to colman alone. such is the value of getting in people will risk insane amounts.

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-richard-chadders0-chadwick-i-stopped-my-1k-shots

recently a very intersting thing happened. 3 $1k regs quit the game - colman being one of them. kiluifiplay, jossel and mrg33n13: three of the biggest bankrolls, most experienced reg-warrers, and 3 of the absolute best at defednign their stakes simply left. this caused something of a bloodbath at the $1ks. people restarted their shot-taking. people from $300s up have been putting pressure on. and even highstakes cash players [tcfromUB being the most noatble example] have been putting volume in.

most interestingly a counter group has been formed, the so called bali-nine. a group of regs decided to band together / live together and study together and try to take the $1k lobbies by force. here are two interviews with a britsh member of group. the politics will astound:

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-1rake1-part-1

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-1rake1-part-2

look again at that skaiwalkurr graph. See the recent tailoff? The slope is one of a player losing to rake. Indeed he has played 7k games this year and won 50.1%. so losing $60k to the rake. His top ten most regular opponents form 4k of those games and are all established regs at $300+. So he has sacrificed 8 months income to keep these players out of his lobbies. [actually he is a boss in other formats, so will still be making money overall + rakeback].
Games in HUSNG’s are very competitive. Bumhunters need not apply

spinwiz follows: if anyone can tell me how to post images i'd be very grateful

Those 2 links are bizarre.

It's a different world.

How exactly do they ban players from playing at a certain level? Do 'Stars gave anything to say on the matter?

I'll stick to my HUD-less tenner SNG's I think. Me & 5 others, may the best man win.